Good evening, my name is Joey Lanquist. I am the project manager for Ramsey County. For the South Shore Blvd Trail.
00:20 - This is our online open house for May 26, 2021.
00:27 - We’re reconstructing South Shore Blvd from White Bear Ave to east County Line Rd.
00:36 - I’m an adding a trail on the north side of the road West of McKnight Rd. The road will be Tulane with the trail and east of Mic Night. It will be one one way going toward the east.
00:54 - Anne. We could go on to the next slide.
00:59 - How the meeting purposes for us to share details of final design and receive public feedback? There is an opportunity also for you to learn details about final design and provide your comments. What do you think the county should be mindful of during this final design stage? Our presentation will be 30 minutes lying or in that vicinity and we have.
01:27 - At least 30 minutes for question and answer. The process will be that you submit questions in the chat Q&A.
01:36 - Anne, we will respond to them verbally after the presentation.
01:41 - Our project stakeholders, the people that we’ve been working with on this project include myself.
01:50 - With Ramsey County John Mods it Ello with Ramsey County.
01:55 - He’s the director of public m delivery.
02:00 - Jim students key with Wiper Township is here. Paul Copy is the White Bear Lake engineer. I’m not sure he’s on tonight. Andrew Geeson is representing Washington County. He’s on line tonight. Greg Brown is the kimley horn project manager. He’s also online and will help me present tonight.
02:20 - Andy Gone you is with Birchwood Village and Greg Birds with lake links and he’s also a resident adjacent to the project.
02:33 - Hi, I’m Greg. As Joey said, I’ll be assisting with the presentation tonight. I’m with kimley horn. I’m a civil engineer and I’m working on developing the final plans for the project in conjunction with Ramsey County A big part of the purpose of the meeting tonight is to get your feedback on the design. We’re just in the early stage of the final design period. I know for some of you this project is s has gone on for years or the discussions have gone on for years, but the end is insight.
We’re getting very close to. Having a final to the plans in 2021 which h will facilitate construction next year, so one of the things we want to make sure you’re able to do is ask questions. So part of this presentation. So if you’re on the web version of the presentation, you should be able to click the button in the lower right corner of the window. If you’re in the mobile version, there’s a button in the upper right side of the window, and those questions will get loaded into our system and will be sorting.
There’s other people here behind the scene that will kind of help.
03:36 - Organize those. You can certainly ask questions during the presentation, but we will hold to the end to respond to. This is also being recorded, so that will be on the web after the fact after the meeting and questions that we maybe don’t get to just for time sake or that we need to find a research and answer if you will l follow up later on the web or with you individually.
04:05 - So here is the project location. The South Shore Blvd trail is on the southwest corner of the lake.
04:14 - An existing trail around White Bear Lake is along the north and West portion of the lake on Lake Ave.
04:24 - And there are plans studies, or for the trail on the East side of the lake, but this is this. Tonight is focused done so sure. Blvd and Lake links Association is trying to complete this trail around the lake and so that you would be able to easily ride a bike or.
04:48 - Walk or whatever you want to do along the. Along the trail.
04:53 - But this would complete the most of the trail with in Ramsey County, although I think there’s a little portion upon 96 that isn’t completed yet.
05:05 - Existing conditions the. The lane widths it’s presently a A2 Lane Rd with 12 foot lanes and forth which shoulders.
05:21 - And. Presently, bikes and pads either walk on the show WAKR right on the shoulder or r they bikes sometimes take over the lane.
05:33 - Some of the things that we consider in final design are the character of the road, how? The design affects the appearance and feel of the corridor. The circulation, how design changes driving routes and access the trail experience How design affects the experience for pedestrians and bicyclists.
06:00 - Safety how design would impact safety for all users, vehicles, bicycles and pedestrians.
06:07 - Services Howard Design would impact mail and package delivery, school bus routes emergency services and trash pickup.
06:15 - Maintenance how design will impact roadway and trail maintenance. Grass mowing, snow plowing and snow removal.
06:23 - Cost of proposed improvements. We try to evaluate the feasibility of estimated construction cost versus the need for the improvement.
06:36 - I’m on street parking. How design impacts on street parking.
06:41 - City utility improvements We are replacing wiper Lake and White Bear Township or replacing portions of the water main and sanitary sewer in the project area and St Lighting.
06:57 - So many of you probably participated in an open house about a year ago, and then there was also some engagement, maybe a couple years before that I believe e. But just to recap of some of the things we heard at the Open House last year, which was pretty much consistent with the earlier conversations that we’ve had with the community, there was quite a bit of response, a very robust feedback, both in terms of the open House as well as.
07:27 - Just write in votes or write in comments etc. Over a period of a few weeks last year, for the most part there is strong preference for a hybrid or one way and or one ways to. The hybrid option was partial two way partial. One way as you can see these pie charts on the left, the hybrid was 40 One way was 31% on the wiki i map responses that we received almost 100 was either one way or hybrid and.
07:59 - What you’ll see tonight, here in a couple minutes is essentially the manifestation of that where we’re doing a hybrid option with a one way from McKnight, Easton, hybrid from a white paradigm. McKnight is, Julie mentioned it to kick off of the meeting.
08:13 - Slide. So another thing that we asked for feedback on last year was what are the things that are most important to the community and this can illustrate those rankings on the left. You can see that safety improvements was a big factor and I think that essentially is walkers and bikers that are using the quarter today and don’t really have a dedicated space. You’re mixing with traffic, it doesn’t feel safe and that’s a really a big if not the primary focus of this project.
08:46 - To provide a safe route for that second and third or bike and PED experiences, just trying to improve that whole experience as you’re going along the corridor from what it is today. And as we go down, we also asked about the impacts of services, aesthetics limiting property impacts s. All those things are things we’re going to consider an important, but the safety and that the bike PED experience were generally the higher ranked.
09:17 - Level of importance, but it doesn’t mean we don’t consider everything. Sure slide.
09:24 - So comment themes is I said, think.
09:30 - Trail the fact that there should be a trail was pretty pretty unanimous as far as things go, and in these types of discussions nothing is ever 100% unanimous, but it’s very strong support for the need of a trail Also, we’ve heard a lot about getting the project done sooner than later and d as I mentioned, I know there’s been discussion of this. I think it may be started initially over 20 years ago as far as visioning of it so we’re almost there.
Trust us. I have a little further to go, but we’re getting there and I know there is there will be a lot of use of this when it does get constructed and limiting property impacts and costs and part of a big part of the design that you’ll see. And then we talked about in the past as well is this? Is it exactly that we’re trying to keep the footprint of the new project. The trail in the roadway is close to the existing roadway footprint and the real primary driver of that is to keep the impacts to private properties as low as possible or is.
10:31 - Little as possible, that also kind of translates to cost as well, keeps costs generally in a reasonable range.
10:39 - Part of the every everyday design that we do or design thinking is includes maintenance and drainage. And we know South Shore has its share of drainage issues A number of you have weighed in over the years about your properties and we have a list of properties that were aware of that have drainage issues. We would like to solicit that further tonight. If there’s anyone, even if you’ve spoken up before, don’t feel free to let us know that you’ve got a drainage concern.
Maybe there’s. Nuisance flooding in a big rainfall etc. Will make sure as we work on the details of the design that we addressed that and try to remedy that so the final project is not just a trail and a one way road or hybrid roadway. It’s really kind of a holistic approach to the corridor and dealing with drainage and some of the maintenance issues that have been a kind of a thorn in the county side over the years.
11:34 - So these next two slides, or this next slide I should say, has two cross sections on a typical sections that the top section is the one way section. This essentially exists from McKnight to County Road out, so it’ll be a one through lane 11 foot wide through Lane. Is Joey mentioned early on the current lane from the white stripe to the center, double yellow is 12, so we’re nearing that up a foot. We do have a shoulder to the right of that generally 6 feet.
12:07 - And then we have a couple feet of kind of grade levels Faces will probably be an aggregate type of surface and then they will go down either down or up to adjacent yards or r ditch to the right on the left of the section is something that’s essentially kind of a new element for celsior. It’s a curve that we’re going to install on the left side of the roadway the north side, and that’s going to kind of delineate the space from the roadway to the pedestrian rian and bike area.
So you see, in the exhibit we have some. Green rectangle that represents the Boulevard that will be essentially turf Blvd and then next to that is a 10 foot trail and again another kind of level graded area, then blending down to the existing property. Sometimes it’s down, sometimes it’s up so that’s the one way typical section, the two way section is really essentially the same from the perspective of the trail and the Blvd evard with the exception that there’s two lanes of traffic.
So here we have two foot lanes of traffic.
13:10 - In a shoulder on the right side of the roadway. Now these are typical sections and by definition that means that won’t won’t necessarily apply everywhere there e are locations where we might be constrained for space, whether that’s due to private landscaping or a significant tree or driveways or other kind of physical factors. And we might need to bring the trail in or make some other minor adjustments to these sections in order to best fit the proposed improvements in the space that we have available.
13:41 - The last point I’ll make on these before we can kind of walk through the corridor is the existing roadway. It may be a little bit difficult to see there, but it’s 32 feet, so there’s a dimension line that’s just below the top dimension line so you can see on the one way option are Our proposed footprint is about 35 feet so we’re just a little bit wider than the existing footprint, so that and that’s intentional to kind of keep our limits as.
14:12 - Compare aghbal or impacts or grading as limited as possible on the sides which translates s to lower minimal impact to any private private property areas or even public area between the road and the private property line on the lower exhibit. The lower section, which is a two way from midnight to White Bear Ave you’ll see. The proposed footprint is 42 feet as compared to the 32, so we’re 10 feet wider than the nature of that part of the corridor.
As you all I’m is a little bit more. Flat, it’s a little more of a straight so that expansion fits a little bit better. If we were to reply that two way section all the way through the corridor, we’d have a lot of significant grading impacts, probably retaining walls and drive significant driveway impacts Easter McKnight. That’s really the primary driver between the hybrid approach the two way and the one way where the two way fits on the West End.
We’re applying it, but to the east we really.
15:13 - Are leaning the one way because of the desire to limit those impacts and that’s been n, I think, echoed in meetings to date and I think generally people have responded to or understand that, but that’s really the motivation between the two sections. So now we’ll walk through the.
15:31 - The corridor and this will be an on line and you’ll be able to see this, so we won’t. I know you can’t necessarily see all the details, but will work her way from West to East. Just pointing out some things for interest. So at the West End of the project the trail will connect to the existing trail. That’s long old white Bear Ave that connects you to Marina Triangle area, so you’ll be able to essentially bike or walk along the whole corridor and go up to that Marina Triangle area and keep going around the lake.
16:02 - You don’t for that matter, if you’d like to do that we’re also going to have a connection that goes to white bear Ave crosses, white Bear Ave, and ties into the trail on the far side of white Bear Ave. That’s along boost like so you kind of see that there on the left side of the image point. I’ll make it t won’t necessarily bring it up at each intersection, but as a rule, when we have side streets, for example, Hazel St here, right in the beginning will generally have new crosswalks or.
16:32 - Head ramps slope ramps that allow wheels, wheelchairs, anything it’s rolling g or people that just aren’t comfortable walking over curves to access their cross. The street some e might have a higher degree of treatment with signage or markings than others but we will always be looking to make those connections into the neighborhood to the South. So people coming from the South on this on the local streets can get to the main trail on the north side of the street.
17:02 - So the next slide takes us just a little bit further down kind of shows us that two lane section from White Bear Ave to McKnight Rd.
17:13 - Generally, our road and trail all fit nicely within the right of way we e will be reconstructing driveways along the way both North, Side and South Side, just to the point where we need to match into your existing driveway grades The process that we’re in right now is kind of a detailed look at the Topa graphical nature of the corridor and try to blend the proposed surface of the road in the driveways with your existing driveways and yards for that matter.
But the driveways are the. The most detailed look that we need to do because of the constraints and how you create driveways out at the other point, I’d make on this particular section the two way section is the center of the roadway itself. The center of the two lanes is a little bit South of the current centerline, and we did that to balance the new footprint. You might remember I mentioned this footprint is 42 feet wide versus 32.
So in order to keep the impacts as balanced from North Side and South Side, we shifted the center line of the road.
18:14 - Just a little bit South, so the edge of the trail and the edge of the South side of the road are kind of comparably wider than the existing, and we’re always looking at existing trees. That’s an important part of the character of the corridor, so for the part where avoiding those trees, and as I mentioned, we might make some some adjustments to the trail or other things in order to avoid significant trees along the way.
18:38 - So the next slide keeps kind of keep marching our way East. This focus is a little bit on the McKnight Rd intersection, so here we transition from two way on the left side of McKnight Road to a single one way direction on the East side of McKnight Road and we’re proposing that being eastbound movement.
18:58 - That’s some, that’s an element that had some discussion to date in the intervening time between last May and currently we are proposing the eastbound, and that’s for a number of reasons of it A little performs a little better from an emergency vehicle response time. The based on this, the location of the fire department and first responders. It works much better for maintenance, operations, snow, clearing, etc.
19:29 - It, there’s kind of trade offs. East and West relative to going uphills and downhills but this has some benefits on the East End of going up up the hill that’s relatively steep as compared to going down, but we understand there’s kind of pros and cons and d some of those perceptions or perspectives, but with all things considered, we feel the one way eastbound is are the best ultimate solution.
19:57 - As I mentioned connection here e in McKnight Rd for example will be connecting to the bike lanes are allowing people to cross whether you’re walking or biking to get to the trail.
20:08 - So the next slide moves us East along the one way section. This is of course a little zoomed out, but this is essentially from midnight to Bellaire and we’ve e narrowed the section down with the one way, so our footprint is generally the same as existing roadway. Generally about 32 to 35 feet, so we’re fitting fairly nicely in the existing edge of asphalt now w. With that said, we’re looking at driveways and other things that we might make some slight adjustments to the alignment to try to still best fit and minimize.
20:41 - Many, many minor grading impacts but things will generally exist within that exist that current footprint.
20:49 - A big benefit of this trail is the spots where you can see the like Just like at Marina Triangle, so we’ll be looking a little closer there. With that rail comes along the shoreline Clearly you’ll be able to see the light just by nature, but we might take some opportunity to meander the trail a little bit further from the roadway if there’s space e within the right away and grading allows just to create a little bit more pleasant experience, but that will be one of the real benefits of the trail from just a user experience.
Something that would be pleasant to. To see maybe even pause at there was some comments and we’d like to solicit comments and their desire to have a bench or anything, and some of those things could be considered, whether they’re in this project or their follow on improvements done, but it’s something that we like to hear, hear people’s thoughts on we’ve e also added a little bit of parking on the north side and these areas where we know there’s a lot of parking pressure today, like in the dock area, so that’s something we’re trying to balance.
Two that adds a little bit of footprint to the overall.
21:56 - Roadway, but we know that there’s probably a little more pressure to have some parking in those areas, and in some of the other parts in the corridor.
22:04 - To the next stop on our tour is the Bellaire intersection, so here of course we have the park to the north again. You can kind of see here. I apologize, I know it’s hard to see at the scale, but we’ve added a little bit more a little bit more parking on the north side of the corridor here again to address the needs at the park. In addition to some existing parking at it that occurs today along the church and will keep that parking.
Or we’re proposing to keep that parking along there.
22:34 - The church is a part of the project and d as Joey mentioned, you will have some space on the South side. It’s the South side of the road, does not have a curb, so it’s kind of an informal zone that could be parked on as need be But where we know there’s a lot of parking pressure We tried to accommodate additional parking on the North side of the road so the next slide moves us kind of done that Eastern one way section. This is from Bellaire essentially to.
23:04 - County Road up again, very similar to the other. It’s a about the same footprint is existing existing roadway fits generally nicely within that g roadway. We have another Marina area down by the lake here just before the East End of the project. Similar in similar design considerations that will be applying there on how the trail interacts with the lake. We have any rest area or does s the trail meander a little bit farther from the from the roadway to create some interest there? In our last few I think is right up at the Eastern intersection or the eastern terminus if you will of the project so that t rail comes up the hill towards County Road F.
Beyond the east side of the right side here of the view and the one way then will T into County Road F South of County Road after course County y Line Rd is 2 way and County Road F is 2 way. Wildwood Ave is 2 way So Birchwood Lane for example residents aren’t there.
24:06 - If they come to South Shore now, they’ll need to turn left and go up towards County Road out and I I know there was some discussion and concern about that in the winter, and we understand that, as I mentioned in our earlier comments, that all things considered we e are, we feel that the eastbound direction is still the best for the corridor. Acknowledging that might be a little bit, some a bit of hardship, and in the winter, based on what we heard from Birchwood Village.
But the. The other factors of going the other direction think outweighed the that winter concern expressed.
24:46 - And I think the last. Point I make here is yet Lake Link Trail would continue on Wildwood Ave I think in the master plan and that’s kind of how things are progressed as they go into Washington County. So the next exhibit, Layla, will talk a little bit about our interactive map that I believe is up on the site today.
25:11 - So yes, it should be should d be something people can access and later could you maybe say a couple words about that? Yep, yeah, let me get this pulled up here so hopefully everyone can see this interactive map. So this is a another way to view the layout that Greg was just walking us through. So this is a way that you can view information about the project, but also provide comments. So I’ll just kind of do a quick demo here so it does ask for you to provide an email address, but that is something that only shows up in the back end.
It’s not posted publicly on the map and then you can select one of the common types and just drop it.
25:51 - And wherever you would like to try to comment on the project so this is available on the county’s website under this project, so please take a look at it after this meeting or on your own time later and explore the map and provide your comments.
26:07 - We just have a couple more slides and will open it up.
26:21 - So here’s here’s our project schedule We’ve completed a study, looked at alternatives and develop preliminary plans. And right now we’re in.
26:38 - Final design. We anticipate. Completing final design by sometime in January and having this out for construction starting.
26:53 - Hopefully next spring. We are also in the process of starting the right away process so.
27:03 - That needs to be completed in the same time frame as final designs, so they will be completing the process and contacting anybody who has any impacts.
27:13 - By sometime in January. We want to thank White Bear Township, the city of White Bear Lake and Lake Links Trail Association for advocacy related to helping us get funding and development for the project and helping us develop the project as well as Washington County.
27:40 - I’m. So now we can move on to our question and answer set session.
27:47 - Yeah, you guys are right on time so I will call you first it or something, yeah thank you. Everyone who has submitted comments already. We will hopefully get to all of them in the next 30 minutes here, so I will just kind of read the first one and we’ll go from there So the first question that was asked is and maybe some of these have already been addressed in the presentation, but for folks that may have missed in the beginning.
28:11 - First question is what problem are we trying to solve with a one way roadway? Yeah, I could take that as a as I mentioned. Really the primary problem if you will l is impacts limiting impacts. If we were to do a two way roadway Easter Mic night we would have some significant grading and retaining walls and impacts to private property that we really would not only add significant cost of the project, but I think it just be more disruptive and less less desirable so o that’s really the primary driver on the one way, frankly.
28:48 - Alright, the next question is about the Boulevard is there e any plantings that will be incorporated into that, or is it just grass? And who will pay for the maintenance? I’m.
29:06 - I think generally it would be grass and less unless somebody has a different answer.
29:13 - We were trying to avoid trees in the Boulevard because that would impact the Lakeview, especially in the.
29:25 - In the Bay area’s. I mean, it’s possible something small could go in, but it has to it. Grass is the easiest thing because it’s mobile and an traversable. If you’re on foot or on a bike.
29:45 - Gregor, John. Do you have a different answer? No, I think that’s right. I enjoy I would say there might be a couple areas that what the project may consider for some landscaping would be driven by T intersection, so those of you familiar with like Ave white bears and some of the intersections, there’s a little bit of planting to kind of.
30:09 - Do a couple of things. Separate the trail users from the road and also give drivers a queue or make sure they understand there is. It can’t keep going straight and driving under the trail like it is a road so we will be looking at in the final design. It may be applying that in a few select locations Beyond that though, let’s Julie said I don’t think the intention is a landscape to Blvd. With that said, I would probably defer to the Township and the city of White Bear Lake will have jurisdiction over 2⁄3 of the court or the two the.
30:39 - The one way section and if they y allow people to. Some people may take it upon themselves to plant those boulevards. I don’t know that might be allowed but it’s probably a city call, another for maybe back to junior John on that. But the eastern part of this project or the corridor will become not Ramsey County roadway. It will become White Bear Lake to roughly Bel Air and then White Bear Township to the east, so they’ll have some, or they’ll have say if you will over some of those types of decisions is.
31:10 - As things move forward. Alright this one might have been more of a comment, but I might rephrase this to be a question to see if this is something we want to answer so o is there a possibility that we could remove some of the Boulevard to make part of the 16 foot strip for walkers and bikers to keep them separate? But if I yeah, I think if I understand the questions that currently we have 16 feet or sorry we have 6 feet of Blvd 10 feet of trail equals 16 feet.
31:48 - So I think I’m a comment is. Could that be re distributed so there’s is 6 feet for walkers maybe? Or someone for walkers and that has some kind of separation generally y they the problem with or the challenge with that from a design perspective, kits into space again so o usually the minimum sidewalk or walking path we’d like e to have is 6 feet.
32:14 - Sometimes we could do 5 feet but six is a pretty good minimum at a minimum m, bikeway, if it’s just two bikes, usually would be 8 feet. So when you add those two together you get 14 4 and then if we had some separation, we would tend end to want to have at least 4 foot of turf or something tween those. So now it’s at 18.
32:35 - Yeah, but that puts the sidewalk right on the curb. So then you got snow storage issues so it just gets to be a space problem, so that’s the primary reason we aren’t proposing that now there. If we had a little bit more space in the space is flat or the right away was flat, that could be a consideration, but it generally would add a lot of lot of physical space to the section which we don’t have, is it mentioned earlier? Not quite sure if I answered that Attended the question but hopefully that was.
33:06 - Kind of what I was tracking. Yes, Yep, I think so. Thanks, Greg.
33:13 - OK, next question will property owners s be assessed for any of the road work? Believe that is no joy to confirm I I’m I was thinking that we have some potential utility work that might be assessed. I’m not positive.
33:35 - And then potentially city of White Bear Lake they aren’t onlinee would have to confirm.
33:43 - Said that, if lighting is put in the.
33:47 - Part of that might be assessed. Part of it would be on the city Part of it might be assessed, I’m not, but I would have to confirm with that.
33:56 - In Joey, if I can clarify if people can hear me, this is John Mazza toll from Ramsey County? The county does not assess property owners.
34:07 - For road work. Any of the work being proposed by the city or the Township for their utilities? Or there is a very very small cost share portion that White Bear Lake is going to be paying for this for the section between white Bear and McKnight.
34:24 - I would contact your city and find out if they are intending on assessing or not, but the county does not assess people for road work.
34:39 - Alright, the next question. Are we is the project team aware of large soft shell turtles that lay eggs along the north side of Snyder’s Bay? So we yeah I could. I could take that we e are we have are aware of that short answer and I think.
35:01 - Sure it’s come up in previous meetings One of the reasons that we have a surmountable curve, which is kind of a more gradual curve would help turtles. What’s good for kind of accessibility in general also helps turtles in this case. Now there are other animals, but so the curb that we’re proposing is a relatively easy curved to traverse. One of the considerations, actually was animal consideration. There’s.
35:32 - Other factors into it, but what we’re proposing should not really shouldn’t adversely affect that activity by the turtles. That’s going on or has gone on for years and years, and they shouldn’t have a problem kind of crossing the new road jewel.
35:53 - OK, the next question, can you explain the decision making regarding the direction chosen for the segment from McKnight Road to County Road E? Hey, and I think this relates to the one way I presume it relates to the yeah the direction of the one way and as I said in the presentation we looked at a whole number of things from first responder times based on where the fire station is to how it gets plowed.
36:25 - Two as well as steepness of hills and where the curves are relative to the hills all l those things factored together. Guided us to the one way eastbound decision.
36:39 - OK, thank you Greg. As part of this project, will the county burying the power lines.
36:47 - We have been talking with them. White Bear Lake and White Bear Township Ann. At this moment we are still considering whether it will be buried White Bear Township or White Bear Lake said that.
37:05 - If it is very part of, it will be on them and part of it may be assessed for the people who are affected. I think we were just looking at the areas of the bays Snyder Bay in the Bay at the East End.
37:19 - But we have we have preliminary costs.
37:24 - And we’re still working on coming up with a decision on that one.
37:31 - Alright thanks Joey. Alright, the next question.
37:38 - Will there be concrete curbs on either the North or South side of the roadway? OK, I’ll take that as the north side of the roadway will have their continuous curve. As I mentioned a surmountable curb b can fairly easy to traverse There are some portions of the South side relatively minor in short that will have curb sometimes at. The intersections will be a little bit of curb to wrap around the intersection. There’s a couple of parking bays ne by the church.
I mentioned today that has curb rb and they’ll be some curb there. I think on the West End we might have a little stretch that we’re proposing curb ‘cause there’s kind of a bituminous curb there.
38:18 - As a rule, there isn’t on the South side with some e exceptions at, but the North will have that continuous curve that separate the trail in the roadway. Provide a little extra measure of safety and sense of safety for trail users.
38:35 - OK, next question. Will there be any truck or weight limits on the roadway? I could say for design you will design the roadway for regular municipal traffic if you will. For this classification of roadway they think is a minimum of nine time with that t said, I don’t and I’ll defer to joy or John to comment or in the city in the Township will haven’t seen as too, but I don’t believe it will be at not sign to be none. No trucks but.
39:17 - Not 100% sure if that could change in the future given the jurisdictional change.
39:25 - Right thinking presently we don’t see any big trucks semis but I buses and single.
39:37 - Single unit vehicles like delivery trucks I’m sure go along there right now.
39:43 - Yeah, Greg is correct. The intent is a nine ton per axle.
39:49 - Weight limit for the new roadway We will do testing.
39:55 - On the materials were putting down that might be able to be elevated to 10 ton.
39:59 - As far as. Restrictions for the traveled way because the city in the Township will be taking over jurisdiction after construction.
40:11 - It wouldn’t really be up to them for that limitation, but as a general rule won’t be because of weight.
40:20 - Alright next question, is there a reason the Blvd evard it needs to be 6 feet? Yes With that said, it will probably won’t always be 6 feet but a lot of the things that we consider when we lay out roadways. Such Addison Trail the roadway is the benefit of a Blvd. Does a lot of things that it provides a space for separation from trail roadway. So that’s a primary element, but it actually does a lot of other, has a lot of other functions ons related to just operation of the facility.
41:05 - So as we all know, we get snow in the winter here and we plow the snow, so having some space between the curb and the trail allows for that snow to be stored there as well as the trail snow. So ideally the trail snow will be plowed to the Blvd and the roads snow will be plowed to the Boulevard as opposed to kind of into the into the yards if you will. So then as the snow melts all that water will find its way to the curb and be kind of managed within the roadway.
41:36 - Drainage system today as you u probably know, or mostly no water goes to the two sides of the road. Sometimes that’s yard, sometimes it’s a ditch It’s not a not quite is organized so it provides that. It also provides room for signage, so if we have signs along the road with those need to be a couple feet away from the road, they also need to be a couple of feet away from the trail so you don’t wanna come with your biking along, so it provides that function.
City White Bear Lake is. Is considering St lighting. It’s a place for the street lights to go, so there’s lots of things that can go on in the Boulevard. With that said, and as I mentioned earlier, there might be places where we just don’t have the luxury of that space Well, that will need to tighten up the trail to the curb, but wherever we do and we can provide that, it really provides a number of benefits to the roadway and end users of the roadway.
So that’s why its proposed. Maybe you have already answered this in an earlier question, but is there any opportunity for homeowners to replant in the Blvd? Yeah, I think I’d defer that I that could be. I don’t currently or you we build the project will be turf generally. Other than maybe a couple of minor exceptions, but I think between the city and the Township, if that’s allowed then that would that would be there called going into future the e western segment that still stays in county jurisdiction I don’t know if there is any policy on that, John or Joey relative to people that may want to do something in there.
43:14 - Blvd Not Greg Tip typically, and I don’t want to speak for either of our municipal governments, but typically because it’s going to be city and Township jurisdiction, that would be a discussion with them.
43:36 - Alright, next question is when are you expecting to start construction? I think I mentioned during the scheduling slide that construction would begin next spring in the spring of 2022.
43:58 - Yeah, hopefully by this time next year will be under construction.
44:04 - Alright, the next question is and who makes the final decision regarding having a hybrid versus A? Full two way configuration.
44:16 - I think the decision has already been made by all of by the study and by the county, and by the partners.
44:29 - John, do you have a different? Although there’s a very short answer to and there’s a longer answer to that.
44:37 - The decision was made through surveying a number of stakeholders like Greg was talking about emergency service providers school l district mail delivery.
44:50 - The. Virtual Open House held a year ago where we had a pin map similar to the one that was shown earlier here.
44:58 - Were an overwhelming majority of the comment in public.
45:02 - Chose either the one way full one way or the hybrid option.
45:07 - So the full two way was not preferred in that meeting and d as Greg alluded to with right of way acquisition, an overall cost of the project. The two way was not really feasible.
45:20 - Option one. We analyzed it. The short answer would be the county. It’s our project, we’re rebuilding it, and we’re going to hand it off to the city in the Township.
45:32 - That being said. I’ve been in this industry long enough. I know nothing is absolutely final until it’s actually built, but.
45:42 - Whatever, what the vast majority of the indicators pointed to in the development of this project is the hybrid being the best solution.
45:52 - Alright thanks John, the next question is are there e any anticipated changes in traffic flow and maybe specifically more traffic on County Road F? Yeah, short answer is yes Obviously with the one way that will change.
46:12 - Your traffic flow generally the eastbound traffic on South Shore. Assuming that remains would take about a little half or so of the westbound traffic, which is half of the overall traffic would likely use County Road F. Maybe not necessarily, but that’s the presumption and some of that might turn up mic night and come on or some probably the majority would utilize white Bear Ave. It’s possible that.
46:43 - Some people might take other routes depending where you’re living or where you live, but in the earlier studies vetted this out, there was some traffic study work that was more detailed as a part of the I think the 2018 work and that was all presented in that meeting a few years ago, and that’s I think the gist of that was, for the most part the traffic that’s just disturbed, either the eastbound if it was going westbound or westbound is going to be spent most likely is going to gravitate to County Road out.
47:14 - I think based on those studies it’s other than yeah there will be some more traffic on county Road F. There’s not an IT expectation of problems at intersections that are problematic or safety issues, but there will be some more.
47:30 - Another element of traffic on County Road F that’s not there today, and Greg, if I can interject on the back end of your answer.
47:39 - In anticipation of that traffic shift, one celsior becomes a one way the county is resurfacing County Road F from m McKnight. These county line this summer.
47:51 - It will be a brand new pavement surface ready and waiting for that traffic shift to happen.
47:59 - Alright I can take actually this next question, so it’s asking, will this presentation be recorded and available somewhere? An yes it is being recorded and we will post it to the project website later this week.
48:17 - Next question is, will there be any changes to the speed limits and will this differ between the two way versus the one way? I think we’re still working through this question with the Township and the city.
48:39 - The narrowing of the lanes to 10 feet and 11 feet should slow the traffic down, so it will be more comfortable if you’re going.
48:49 - Probably 2025 miles an hour, which fits in with some of the local cities changes but we still need to work through that question with the city in the Township.
49:06 - Alright, thanks, Joey next question is. So I currently use the crosswalk at South Shore Blvd, Hazel St and more often than not traffic does not stop when pedestrians are present with the new design provide e any solutions for this problem? So that’s a good question and I I mentioned in my talk as we kind of walked away through each of those cross streets, including Hazel, we’re looking at it, probably two or three different lights but with the intention to make those crossings as safe as possible.
So one of the tools we use and you’ve probably seen this around town and your travels, but at intersections now opt and we’ll bumping curbs and bring him as tight as possible to just the traveled way.
49:52 - So if there is a shoulder or a parking Bay, or something, normally the curb will pump out so the crosswalk is short and so that’s one way to make things safer. The other thing that strategy does is makes the pedestrian very visible to the drivers So today that often and this is a case that Hazel your set back and there could even be parked cars or just your further back from the drivers I as you enter the street so we’ll be looking at geometrical changes that way.
50:24 - As we get further on into the details of the design will also be looking at signage and striping, and if we should have higher higher end or higher level of visibility and some of these crosswalks and they probably won’t, I’ll be equals but we now Hazel’s probably one that’s got a fair amount of traffic because it’s got sidewalks coming up to it night and others that have pedestrian facilities. Bel Air.
50:55 - Will be certainly cases where we know pedestrians will access the trail. We want people to get to the trail, so we’ll be looking at all these intersections even in the White Bear Township streets which don’t have sidewalks but they duty into social would be looking at those sightlines and into the extent we can narrow up that crosswalk and get the pedestrian in the eye of the driver before they have to step out into the street That’s our goal.
So that’s a part of St Design we do these days that we didn’t always do.
51:25 - The first time around so o that is an important element in the of the design and something that will be looking at it all the intersections, including Hazel.
51:37 - Alright, next question is are golf carts allowed to go on the bike path? That’s a good question.
51:47 - I don’t know if I’ve had that question before and a meeting I’m gonna defer that to the experts in Ramsey County.
51:58 - I honestly don’t know. Uhm? We’re gonna have to research that and.
52:11 - I see the person who asked the question is named Tony Tony if you u wanna drop Joey Ryan email we can get your contact information and get you an answer to that.
52:19 - I know motorized internal combustion vehicles aren’t allowed on trails.
52:25 - I don’t know bout electric golf carts. Maybe it maybe our constituents. Cities will be able to answer that for us, but we can get an answer that for you.
52:36 - Alright. What is the time frame for allowing people comment on the interactive feedback maps? I would I know we’re going to keep it up, at least for a few weeks. With that said, I think engagement and input is always welcome. We obviously we’re in the process now of final design, so there’s gonna be a point where.
53:05 - Changes is limited as we get further into the summer, so we encourage people to access that sooner than later. I think we’d like. Will probably do it. Download up it in a couple of weeks, but I think it will continue to be available and we could. It’s possible we might re repost another version of it or something later on as well but I don’t know. John and Julie want to add to, but our intent is to try to get your input is.
53:35 - As soon as possible. Now we’ve and we’ve gotten input from last year, and previously we haven’t lost that so we do still have that. You’re welcome to kind of make the same comments if you’d like to.
53:46 - But we would it’s most helpful if you comment early and in some cases and some properties where we might have some decisions to make on grading or driveways, we probably will reach out to you specifically in and get some input in those cases But anything that you are concerned about and I’ve taken n primarily on a kind of budding resident or property owner perspective, that’s all good information. And the more the merrier, frankly at this stage of the game and just helps us kind of coalesce around.
54:17 - The best design possible. And Greg, if I can interject even after the pin map is closed for comment, anyone can always reach out to Joey or myself. If there’s an issue that develops or something you’re concerned about.
54:37 - Alright, it’s great. Thank you both. I’m actually just pointed out an update that I want to make sure we’re clarifying. So on the schedule side, we had to know the timing of construction was dependent on availability of project funds, and I think that was a carry over from an earlier draft, so if there’s anyone that wanted to clarify that we can make sure it’s updated before it’s posted.
54:56 - So the question is, will construction be dependent on funding for the project? Essentially yes, it’s funded.
55:12 - The Lake Links Association and a number of.
55:16 - Concerned residents in cooperation n with the county and the cities, were able to secure a state legislative appropriation grant.
55:25 - For construction funds, projects funded it’s in n our transportation improvement plan for 2022.
55:32 - In part of what I would have to talk to earlier about if we went wide or things that cost more money Part of what we did last year with the input from people was we did a cost estimate around the tail end of that study that ran into the fall and that cost estimate and the available funding or synced up as John said. So the project is funded. If it was a two lane Rd with the trail all the way, I don’t think we have that money locked up in the bank so speak so based on our.
56:02 - Our proposal we’re good to go. Alright, thank you for clarifying that.
56:10 - I guess next question here is, are there any details in the design on the East End regarding making sure that there are? A slow moving bikes or that t I guess those bikes are separated from the higher speed bikes coming down the hill. Is there a wider trail here? Amber is there option to lessen the grade on the East End? Yeah, very good question question n observation we’re looking at that. ‘cause that is. It’s a lmost 9% grade today, so we’re we’re looking to see if we can adjust the trail grade a little bit even if that’s a little flatter than the road, if that makes sense or r so we might.
Anything we can do without you ain, encroaching or causing trouble outside the right away will try to apply there.
56:59 - So it’s still going to be a steep hill. It’s kind of no two ways about that, but ideally we we’ve got a few tricks that we’re going to try to apply from an engineering perspective to try to mitigate that I’d say the jury is still outside. I don’t want to promise that but we were aware of it, and it’s something we’re looking at in the final design to see if we can make things a little safer, and that could be a little flatter. Could be a little broader curve the larger radius it could be a little more width for separation, so I’ll All those things are in play, will just be kind of looking at the details and the ramifications of each one.
Very very insightful comment. Thank you. Alright, I realize that we are at 8 00 o’clock here and we have received a few more questions, but I think a lot of them we are kind of similar topics we’ve already discussed Is there any other? I guess last words from presenters before we e wrap up tonight.
58:00 - I’m I think we will try to answer the questions and post the question and answers so people can see them.
58:11 - At any minute written form joint right? Yeah, we could do a written form, something that we can post it will l include even things that we’ve answered verbally. We can kind of condense that into a narrative form. Also will have all the questions in one location I think as far as the recording Layla will that be live like tomorrow or tonight Or when do we think that I think we have to download it and then send it to the Ramsey County? Public or the? The person that we’re working with that post things live, and I think she’s out of town this week so it might not get post until next week.
58:57 - But yes, although the follow up from this meeting tonight will be posted on the website.
59:08 - If we don’t have anything else to cover, there were 87 questions or comments.
59:16 - Posted the lot of them were repetitions so we didn’t address every single one of them.
59:22 - But from a project development standpoint, I cannot thank the public who participated tonight enough.
59:29 - The questions in the comments is what we need.
59:33 - To get the final details on this design, put together and get the project moving for next year’s construction. So thank you very much for participating.
59:46 - Yes, thank you very much for giving us information that will help make this project a better project.
59:57 - Have a good night everyone. Have a good night. .