I Ciarlatani Ep. 1: CANTANTES DE ÓPERA SOBREVALORADOS (tenores y sopranos) | Tenorino Medici

IN THIS EPISODE OF “I CIARLATANI DE LOGGIONE” It results, for example, on Sunday (Domingo, correction), a pressed voice that… is a… is a pressed voice in every way… In Bonisolli, for example, it results… results in vowels that do not sound clear, that do not sound defined… If Pertile was elegance personified, Gino Penno was… was vulgarity personified I have named it “the blowpipe technique”… Oh yes They are nasal on an impressive level, truly. UZZIEL: Hello, operaphiles.

I am very pleased to welcome you to this new section 01:02 - on the channel in which we will be talking with you, the channel’s audience. We will be talking about topics that I am not going to take in separate, special videos, for example, questions, doubts that arise from those videos that are special… I don’t know, I don’t know if it’s correct to call them that. Questions, doubts, curiosities, topics of interest or curious topics like the one that we are going to talk about today and that I will mention below. So we want this to be a kind of conversation between us and you and have a drink, a coffee…

well, no, 01:54 - coffee no, singers should not have coffee… some tea, water, wine, whatever want, and join this conversation in which we are going to talk about what we love so much, opera. This section is going to be conformed by me, Uzziel Navarro, known in the underworld as Tenorino Medici, and my friend Elías will also accompany me… ELÍAS CASTILLO: Hello, how are you? Greetings to all from Peru. U: Our friend too, Enoc… ENOC JORDAN: Hello, how are you? I am Enoch Jordan Abi. Greetings also from Peru.

U: Well, join us, these three guys who are known 02:39 - for seeking the true old school to remain and that is why we are these three “Ciarlatani del Loggione” Because today is the first episode, we are not going to take questions exclusively from the public, like this that we choose a curious subject, let’s put it like this. The theme we chose was “Overrated Singers of the Past”. From the past because in other channels there are already many videos of overrated singers , but from the present and we want to talk precisely about singers from the past, especially those who made careers from the seventies and before, with the exception of some people that we are going to mention. Singers of the past, then, who made a career before the 70s and for some reason they are infiltrated on the podium of singers who are true legends, but who really, or so we think, do not deserve it. First of all… EC: they don’t deserve it so much… EJ: yes, X2. U: Let’s start with the tenors. First of all, we put Domingo and Carreras in the same bag. Let’s see…

what happens here with these two gentlemen is that in origin, and that is going to be 04:24 - the constant of all those that we are going to be mentioning… is that there is a kind of imitation. In the specific case of this pair, an imitation of Di Stefano, in the manner of Di Stefano. In their case, copying some technical aspects of Di Stefano’s technique that they should never have imitated, because it is not a damn secret that there are things in Di Stefano’s technique that are not right, that is, opening the high notes too much , the unnecessary expulsions of force, anarchically leaving aside stylistic aspects and the singing technique that are basic. EJ: Yes, I think that to mention something else, besides what you said, which has been very complete, I would add this… how he pronounced certain consonants, / k /, / j /, various consonants that he pronounced such time more than it should, because we know that the consonants must be played and the vowel is the one that must be at the base of all the singing, but it is noticeable in some recording, more in the new ones, or rather, in the last , that this way of pronouncing existed.

This 06:58 - perhaps was what threw him into a certain balance on the edge. EC: I was going to refer more than anything to Carreras and his comparison with Di Stefano. I think that Di Stefano’s biggest mistake was that, as Uzziel mentioned, he opened not only the high notes, I think mainly from the passaggio area. When you start to open, there are already muscular, resonance imbalances. That shows a lot. It is evident in Di Stefano and also in Carreras, that he wanted to look for the same stylistic idea as Di Stefano, but that entails, then, as I have just mentioned, some muscular problems, technical problems and that, for example, when you listen to the “Ecco rident “of Di Stefano which, by the way, it seems to me…

07:52 - I like it, however, I cannot help but recognize that Di Stefano carries his agility very… with a certain sense, in a musical sense not He does the agility because with lightness, they are a bit stagnant, the same stagnation is perceived in Carreras’s voice for following the same aesthetic and technical pattern. And in the case of Domingo, more than the technical pattern, I think it is the aesthetic pattern, the “di forza” pattern, which Di Stefano also had , not so much the act of opening, because Domingo did not open his voice like Carreras. In this case, this is what I can observe. U: Yes. And we have to make a clarification: we are not listing Di Stefano, because, although he was somewhat anarchic, Di Stefano really had something inside him, something genuine, according to what he was emitting vocally. Genuine and arising from a true expression, a true feeling of those emotions.

09:24 - The problem is that he faced that constant search to impact the public, to put theatricality in front of him and being anarchic, I will repeat it, regardless of what happened technically, to give it a technical support perhaps more efficient. So, Domingo and Carreras take this principle, they put theatricality in front of it. Yet they are even more anarchic than Di Stefano in some way. Or rather, in the case of Domingo, for example, that he confuses those things that Di Stefano did wrong. Maybe he thinks they’re okay. Maybe that’s what happened in… EJ: You think they were virtues, right? U: Yes. I thought these defects were virtues that had to be copied… EJ: Replicate U: So, in Di Stefano we do see a relatively full voice and that is unquestionable. But when Domingo and Carreras come to translate that into their own voices, the result is, for example, in Domingo a pressed voice that… is a pressed voice in every way is pressing the breath, it is pressing the strings, it is pressing on the pharynx and if you press on the pharynx, the soft palate is going down and the voice is caged in the nose. U: So you have a technical set… EC: Very unbalanced. EJ: Wow, yeah. Just imagining it really hurts. U: YES! EJ: Imagine pressing from the abdomen, then the strings are pressed and then the resonance level , precisely the three levels that are the basis of the song because… U: Yes. EJ: Well, they are the only ones… U : The three components. EJ: Breathing, phonation, resonance…

EC: Many will mention that he has lasted many years 12:15 - U: This is what I really do not understand: how that man continued singing so long, because, in effect, the three damn components of the voice are professional level pressure. In the roles “di forza” is more noticeable. There he wants to put force using that system and because of that the whole voice collapses. We see it evidently in Turandot, in Aida, in Trovatore, in all of Verdi, in all the “di forza” roles that he did, then that was transmitted to the rest of the roles. EJ: It is something chronic. A chronic problem, and not only in a singer, another singer who is a fan of the first singer, but a historical thing: first sanity and emotion in a perfect balance, then more and more tending to emotion, and little by little everything goes away , that sanity and the foundation is being forgotten and we will remain in theatricality, that appeal simply to feel. That is a path that we see that is leading to the destruction of mechanics or that has led to the destruction of EC mechanics: Of vocal mechanics. EJ: Yes, the vocal mechanics.

U: Pavarotti is a case 14:19 - of imitation of Di Stefano, correct is the path that these two men should have followed , because Pavarotti also takes as an example the theatricality of Di Stefano, the constant search to make an impact on the public and I spoke about that in the videos that I dedicated to Pavarotti However, Pavarotti has behind that a technical support that explains this theatricality, in him there is a technical prudence that allows him a free voice, without pressure! EJ: Exactly. And I think that what I am going to mention now is something that we all already know: when there is a better voice mechanics, a better resonance strategy, the interpretive level also expands much more, you have many more colors, you have many more expressions of freedom , more and more opportunities to be the character. U: Yes, in fact, Di Stefano is the proof, that is, although he was anarchic with some things, he expressed well. In fact, I think it is the tenor that seems to me perhaps the most original in terms of expression. You listen to a specific aria in a recording and then you listen to another of him in that same aria and you always find different things, always with different emotions, genuine emotions, with a voice, indeed, as I say, with some defects but with once free, that is,…

EJ: he is the same character but in different dimensions… U: Yes, um… EJ: Just as genuine. EC: There is transparency in your expression. U: Yes, that, exactly. It is genuine. EC: Exactly U: the next on the list is Franco Bonisolli. EC: Let’s see what we can say about Bonisolli. Well, as we are seeing a moment ago in Carreras and Domingo, in them we can see… They have more defects, let’s put it like this. In Bonisolli there are more redeemable things, especially at the beginning of his career, when you could see a tenor that had more heroic overtones, a voice that was better suited to lyrical roles, that was adapted to a repertoire more connected with heroic belcanthism.

U: Exactly, we have a voice that originally should have been dedicated 18:30 - to what is the heroic tenor, the protagonist of the romantic roles of the 19th century and we are talking about a voice that is a voice that needs to have some faculties, in short, of elegance. Because for these roles what is needed is a voice with the flexibility and malleability to execute those singing lines, they need a voice that is organically regulated, that is not coarse, that is capable of regulating well dynamics of the intensity of the voice and rhythms. We need a voice in these heroic tenors, I insist, in short, elegant, that is capable of having what I like to call “vigorous momentum” in the accents, that is, to make accents, indeed, dramatic but these dramatic accents do not have To be force expulsions , they do not have to be based on pushing the voice, as is what we have been led to believe since the emergence of the verista tenors. These dramatic accents really have to be totally contingent on resonance. When in these roles a strong intensity of the voice is needed , the whole voice has to be subject to penetration with the resonance.

It never has to be pushing the voice, and as an obvious example there is Lauri-Volpi. Lauri-Volpi is the perfect example of a 19th century heroic tenor voice. You will never see Volpi pushing the voice, the tenors of the first half of the 20th century will never see him so rough. So we have a voice that has to be necessarily elegant for these roles. In Bonisolli we can see that he most likely had this nature.

We can see this in the roles that he sang in his beginnings, in the 21:28 - 60s, “Rigoletto”, “La traviata”, “La bohème”, “manon”, the tales of hoffmann, even Rossini did : “La donna del lago “,” L’assedio di Corinto “, and in 1970 he did a quite estimable” Barbiere di Siviglia, or at least I prefer to have that than what we have now. So, Bonisolli as we can see him in those roles that he did in In the 1960s, we can see that he had that nature, as Elías says, to take on roles that we now consider more lyrical. Until the 1970s came. What happens with Bonisolli here, the problem that screwed him up, was excessive idolization that I had for Corelli, this figure of verismo, a good figure of verismo. As we said, the people that we are going to list in this video have this constant that they are going to be imitating figures and that they are going to be imitating defects that never They should have imitated them, those defects are going to be taking you as virtues. Bonisolli he misunderstood the force expulsions of verismo.

EJ: Here I would like to mention the exact difference between 23:04 - the two paths that can be taken to reach this heroism, these expressions of strength, which would be heroism on the one hand and bravery on the other side. So we can see how on the bravery side one hits the note, with diaphragm hits. It’s based on a very Verista thing. And on the other hand, we have heroism that is based on elegance, on sweet phrasing, without losing substance obviously and that is directed towards that, towards a real heroism, something that comes out of a bravery from elegance, which is turns into heroism. So we already see a more refined thing, something sane and emotional, precisely that balance that we were talking about before that was lost and I think this is a very important thing, since all these characters that we are going to be naming have a factor in common , which are never in the center obviously. They are either on the very verista side or on the very soft side. I would like to make a comparison.

25:05 - The “morbidity” is the exact point that the voice has to have and the harshness is what we could see here with Bonisolli; and the most liquid (light) we will see later. I think these are things that maybe we should take into account and then make the comparisons appropriately which, of course, I for my part will do. U: How nice that you explain exactly the difference between the two paths, because precisely what Bonisolli does is see certain characteristics in Corelli’s singing and then apply them, translate them into his own voice, but never, never understanding why the hell these things were present in Corelli and that most were defects that he should never have imitated, for example, something we see in all people who imitate Corelli: it is a very strange way of articulating vowels, which in Bonisolli can be seen as vowels that do not sound clear, they do not sound defined And obviously with this bad imitation of force expulsions, of pushing the voice, we end up with a guy who is not capable of constructing the sentences that must necessarily be elegant, I am going to repeat the word We can see it at Trovatore, at Guillaume Tell, at Turandot, at Aida, at Tosca. It is a voice that, if it was not so elegant in the 60s, everything that could have been did not achieve it. EC: Of course. I think that what was emerging, because of his fondness for Corelli, because of his need for his ego to be something bigger, in the end he unraveled, he went from the path for which his voice was naturally inclined.

28:40 - Because of this, his art became remarkable, but not the great thing that it could have become. EJ: You see a waste, vocal waste. Because, we are comfortable here, having so much wood, so many opportunities in a type of vowel, in a vocal tract like that, in strings like those… I think he could have done many things, he could have followed one more line solid and would have lasted longer surely like that, but the payoff that ultimately takes place because it defines and separates an emotional singer from a real singer, a singer, as Volpi said he had to be intelligent in every way. Well, this is what we saw that he, perhaps because of the ego, wasted, as already said, This is a sad thing. Always the slowest path is usually the best, and this is what we are looking at here. Because belcantista training is longer.

The other is tougher, more of the diaphragm, 30:06 - putting more subglottic pressure. And these things can be obtained slightly, or rather, they can be obtained relatively easily, but it is this real heroism that takes time, because one starts from the little and builds everything. Not only is that enough, but you have to do it correctly, several times and for a long time, until the muscles develop, the coordination develops. And with this maybe some singers can say: well, I’m not going to waste my time here. But really all that time that you are using, is the time that is going to be multiplied, so that later the vocal longevity is appreciated.

We already 30:54 - have Lo Forese, Volpi, who had techniques, resonance strategies, vocal mechanics that worked for them throughout their careers. U: Yes, in short, it’s a shame because there was a voice that by nature was… it was a blessing, because voices like his are not always born, that voice heavy by nature, but that has the ability to acquire these faculties of elegance. Indeed, it is a disgrace. The next on the list is a very similar case of Bonisolli, which is Gino Penno, because we also have another voice that is obviously a naturally heavy voice and, in fact, although it may not seem like it, he was educated by a very good teacher: Aureliano Pertile. A very good teacher in that field, in the field of the heroic tenor . However… EJ: Shocking.

U: I don’t know what the hell happened to that man, because 32:21 - Gino Penno is the complete opposite of what Pertile was. Pertile was elegance personified: good singing line, correct accents, the construction of the phrases is correctly bel canto, if I can put it that way, with organically regulated dynamics. He understood very well all the elegance of the scores, of all the musical language that the scores of these of these roles hint at. Like I say, Gino Penno was the opposite. If Pertile was elegance personified, Gino Penno was… EJ: Vulgarity. U:… he was vulgarity personified. EJ: And it really surprises me, that is, how is it possible that having a teacher like Pertile someone like Penno came out.

Perhaps, I don’t know, it must have been a renegade student. Perhaps he too has been someone who has said: “I don’t like this”, or I don’t know, who has decided to go the opposite way precisely, to turn against his teacher. I don’t know, several things cross my mind now , like maybe Prtile’s methodology was very laborious, maybe it repeated a lot and the student was already tired. Maybe, I don’t know, so many things… O Pertile… Tell me… U: Another thing: the time. The time is… EJ: Oh, right, right. U:… of the continuous… EJ: The boom of verismo. U: Yes, the contamination of verismo. This need to impact the public. Although, at the beginning the veristas did well, all the Caruso epigones: Gigli, Masini, Merli… All those people who were normally there before the war.

But after the war 35:10 - all these tenors appear who took the verista school and, I don’t know… EC: They disfigure it. U: They just didn’t know how to understand her and that’s what I see with Gino Penno, as we were talking about it in private: there is a lack of intelligence to understand what the hell was needed for these roles for heroic tenors and also a lack intelligence to understand how to apply verismo in these roles. Corelli did know how to do it. EJ: I think… EC: And even though his voice… I’m going to continue, I’m going to continue. EJ: “Talk, talk” and continued EC: And despite the fact that her voice, as I was reading in some observations, was a voice that was heard in person very intense, very, very strong, very, very present, in that sense. But it was a voice that was not cultivated, it did not cultivate, as you mentioned, it did not have the intelligence to be able to cultivate its voice under the guidelines of… U: It is that by nature it was heavy, obviously I imagine that it must have been imposing that voice if you had it in front of you.

36:36 - Because it is heavy by nature, it is a spinto tenor by nature. However, as you say, he did not know how to cultivate, firstly, he did not know how to cultivate a resonance produced in the most efficient way , because it is well known that from head to toe that voice is totally inefficient. And it is noticeable in each note that he emits, most of them you can see that it is not well produced, that there is no intelligence behind handling that voice… EJ: It’s like… I think he is a teacher, a perfect teacher Pertile and a student who is very confident in his talent. And, well, we already know what happens with the talent myth.

Talent is earned with effort, with persistence and obviously 37:32 - doing it well too. When you trust your talent, you are imprisoned, because talent has limits and when you want to improve, but you continue to trust talent, because you say: “well, I am like that and I can, I trust that the voice is very heavy… “, but as you said, there is not that efficiency in the sound, it is not a voice that is well thought out, it is a voice… I was just saying the” Say quella pira “thing, which is very noticeable there compare Pertile to Penno. I was saying it the other time, Pertile’s singing line was very gentle, very beautiful. Instead, Penno is a hammer.

38:29 - Well, this is a bit funny for me, that when he begins to sing “Say… que… lla… pi… ra” I mean, they are really hits, and you don’t see the elegance that.. Obviously we know that this has great influence from the public, but there were ways to reach a much better effect , more effective, more appreciable than brutality. I think here he made a big mistake because, well, if he had taken the perfect path we would probably not be talking about him here, but, rather, mentioning him as an example of what some other bad singer should have been. U: Next on the list… Rather, the following are two characters, and we are going to put them in the same bag: Luigi Alva and Ugo Benelli. Let’s see… If we are already… EJ: Uh, uh…

U: If we are talking about the side EJ: Of the hardness. U:… from the corrupted side of the force, now let’s talk about the corrupted side of the lightness. EJ: Of the sweetness too. U: Of the sweetness of the tenors “di grazia”. What happens here with these two characters is that we see the antecedent, the original parents, of what we currently see with the light tenors. EC: The “Rossinians”… U: Yes. We are going to locate ourselves at the time. We are in a time where Tito Schipa is already totally relegated from the theater, he is no longer so present.

We also have an 41:29 - early disappearance of Cesare Valletti from the theaters, a student of Tito Schipa. And also, I take very much into account Bruno Landi, who also retired in 1950, if I’m not mistaken. With the disappearance of these of these three characters, we also have the disappearance of an example of what the voice of the “tenore di grazia” should be… EJ: “di grazia”… A good lost reference point. U: And… How do you say? EJ: Oh, I said, a good lost referent, left them without… without that, a referent to look at. Let’s see, Tito Schipa is sung in one way and these people, well, it is obvious that they hear each other differently.

You can see that there is an imbalance here already then. That was the beginning of the problems. They too took sides, I think they tried in some way to replace Tito Schipa precisely, because he was no longer on stage and, well, I suppose he was surprised. EC: I would speak of a polarization in the tenor’s voice. EJ: Yes. EC: A historical polarization. On the one hand, as the tenors “di forza” said first that they exceeded the force, and the tenors now “di grazia”, ​​that they became so weak. that did not give grace. EJ: I also mentioned the “morbid” thing, the lightness and the hardness. Here this is a very obvious example.

43:10 - Here the voice no longer has that “morbidness” that characterizes it and that makes it the perfect middle ground between hardness and lightness, but it has already melted, the voice is no longer a voice, it is… one thing, one line, a point, call it what you like. But this sound is no longer in the center. This also happens for fashion, right? At the beginning, the tenors “di forza”, that the public longed for verismo, then they gave and gave strength. Later, passing to the tenors “di grazia”, ​​also, Schipa and his student were surprised, so let’s go back to sweetness, sweetness so that they get diabetes.

And, well, surely 44:04 - this was the purpose, because they took sweetness to an extreme where it was no longer sweetness, as Elías said, there was no longer “grace”, nor was there grace. So this is a lesson for us, that is, not to be fashionable, always go towards that center. Obviously you also have to be intelligent, like Volpi, who took the things that the public wanted and introduced them, but he did them in the right way , that is, he did not exceed his bravery, he continued to be heroic with the same line as already I had continued, only modifying some things and continuing with vocal longevity, everything perfect and But, what happens when one already passes that line? Well, it becomes like these two, like polarization, like Elijah mentioned. And, well, this is kind of sad too. Everything is sad, here we come to talk about the sorrows of the opera, the sadness. U: Yes. What happens here is that, I think, they confused lightness and nobility of the voice, with making little sounds, poorly produced sounds, with a high larynx, because if you tend your voice to that anarchism of lightness, you will Raise your larynx, your pharynx is going to close and, as it is not enough, they are the creators of these light tenors, these light, nasal voices. EJ: You have a name for it. What is your name? Hehe.

U: They usually call it the voice of the 45:59 - tenor mosquito. EJ: Mosquito, yes. U: The mosquito voice… EC: Bzzz… U:… but I’ve called it “the blowgun technique”… U: Because… EJ: And it makes sense U: Yes, because the voice is passing through a thin tube, it is a small tube through which the voice is passing and the result is this anemic, discolored voice, which has no flavor, it is an insipid voice, which… EJ: A miracle. A miracle that some sound is produced by this tube, indeed. U: Yes. EC: I would say that they have misunderstood that concept of what it is to focus the voice, to settle the voice. They have… they have compressed the voice, it is placed on a rod, on a blowgun. U: And in the end… EJ: I wanted to mention… Excuse me to interrupt.

I was going to mention 47:35 - that they mistook that lightness for weakness. U: Yes. EJ: Sounds like that to me. U: With anemia, as I say. EJ: Yes. The lightness is the agility, that, the lightness in the muscles to do coloraturas and… But it has to remain, I will not tire of saying it, it has to continue to have the point of “morbidity”. When you remove that and insert the weakness, we have this… U: Yes, the result is a voice that has a sickly aspect, that is lacking in life, that lacks… EC: Substance.

U: It 48:16 - lacks that vibration, that substance that was present in the people that I already mentioned: Valletti, Schipa, Landi, and even the people who were before them, Fernando de Lucia, for example. Missing… As they think… As they are light tenors they think they have to have a white voice without much presence, but no. That is to say, in the characters that I am mentioning, Valetti, Schipa, Landi and De Lucia there is a true “squillo” present, a true resonance of the voice, with a true chiaroscuro, there is a balance between all these qualities that give it vitality and energy to voice. And I insist, it is what we are seeing today, they are precisely the precedents of everything that we are seeing in our days, unfortunately. There are things that it hurts to hear. EJ: And, you know, I think that if a professional singer is listening to us, it would be great to mention that now singing in that center that we mentioned before can work perfectly.

You know why? Because now everything is so polarized, which is the rule, 52:04 - and if you want to be the exception, then you could look for that center and when you find it you will be something very, very, very, very different. Apart from the fact that… Although several singers depend on the center, that center provides vocal personality to each of them, due to the different anatomy and physiognomy. In other words, as each tract is different, no matter how much they use the same mechanics, the ones in the center will not be heard the same, because they make the most of the resonance and the maximum of the strings, that one is never the same as the other. So now we are at a perfect time to sing well, because these extremes are already very normalized and, well, people want more more realism. So if a singer has been providing all this… EC: More genuine. EJ: Imagine… Exactly. U: May God hear what you are saying. EJ: Hahaha.

Also like this video, please, and you too, if you are watching you 53:15 - have to like it. U: Well, we close the list of tenors. Let’s continue with the sopranos. U: Let’s see. EJ: Who do we have? U: First of all, we are going to have a controversial case. This is where we are going to have most of the “hate”. And it’s Sutherland… EJ: Please be nice to the hate. The center, the center, do not exceed. U: It must be said that, like Bonisolli, Sutherland is a less worse case like the garbage that we are going to see in a moment. She, Sutherland, is another voice that was born with nature for opera, it is a voice, well, something great by nature.

54:13 - In fact, she was originally a Wagnerian soprano, just in case you didn’t know. She… Her mistake was… again, another case of a maladaptation of what a school left behind meant by other voices that served more as an example of that school. In Sutherland’s case, it was this school left by voices like Tetrazzini’s, which goes back to the school left by Adelina Patti. What is this about? It is a school of truly bel canto origin, but this school arose at the end of the 19th century. This school seeks that these bel canto roles are sung with soft and birdlike sounds, like those of the coloratura soprano, like Adelina Patti; Adelina Patti era una coloratura.

Con ella inicia esta tradición de ver a 55:35 - los roles belcantistas como si estuvieran destinados para voces ligeras y para ser cantados, como digo, con estos sonidos blandos y de canario de las sopranos coloratura. Realmente en el pasado, a mediados del siglo del siglo 19, en tiempos de Bellini, Donizetti y también Rossini, y en parte Verdi… Estos roles realmente no eran así, incluso las coloraturas que los cantaban. Había una diferenciación con lo que Adelina Patti y otras introdujeron. ¿Qué pasaba con con la verdadera concepción del belcanto en las voces de mujeres? Había una búsqueda de la ligereza de la voz pero, como lo platiqué en el vídeo de la Callas, también hay una búsqueda de exponer acentos dramáticos.

57:15 - Y el caso evidente es el de Giuditta Pasta, Malibran, Viardot. Es una búsqueda de intensidad de la voz, pero todo supeditado a la resonancia, todo supeditado a la penetración de la resonancia. BELCANTO TARDÍO (sonidos suaves) ¡BELCANTO REAL! (sonidos suaves y ¡dramáticos!) EJ: Yo quisiera aquí comentar lo que creo que está mal hablando ya de la fisiología. Bueno, yo veo aquí un problema de coordinación, porque está muy sabido que la cuando uno baja la laringe, las cuerdas suelen abrirse más… Incluso cuando haces un bostezo. Es una desventaja. Pero justamente este es el entrenamiento de la coordinación, bajar la laringe, que las cuerdas sigan vibrando como si la laringe estuviera alta, y esto es lo que proporciona 1) la ligereza, en el sentido de la libertad de la vibración de las cuerdas y 2) el dramatismo por el gran espacio que puede haber.

También para apoyar la 59:12 - ligereza, está el paladar blando, que se expanda y que se suba para que los armónicos altos puedan balancear todo el espacio y los armónicos bajos que está proporcionando la faringe. Entonces, ¿qué es lo que pasa con Sutherland? Hay un problema de descoordinación. Cuando quiere hacer sus sonidos dóciles los hace con poco espacio y cuando quiere hacer sonidos un más solemnes, más majestuosos, como en “Casta diva”, por ejemplo, abre la faringe, lo cual está bien, pero como no hay esa coordinación entrenada, se pierde la vocal. También he estado haciendo un pequeño chiste. Espero que no caiga mal. Después ya veo los comentarios ahí diciendo: “Enoc, que te mueras mañana”. Bueno, espero que no.

Yo escucho cómo Maria Callas dice “C(AAA)sta diva”, y cuando lo hace 00:17 - Sutherland, ya no es una “C(AAA)sta diva”, incluso Maria Callas con mucha profundidad igual se nota que es una /a/ por la escultura de la lengua, o el esculpimiento que hace la lengua de la vocal. Pero cuando lo hace Sutherland, se escucha “C(OOO)sta diva”, ni siquiera la /i/ suena bien. Entonces el problema es: ya que ha estado acostumbrada a cierta resonancia y ha ajustado la lengua para que no suene excesivamente brillante, podríamos llamarlo así, cuando abre el espacio todo se deforma. Entonces, otra vez, esto es una cuestión de proporciones y uno tiene que saber cómo manejar la lengua, la faringe y todas las partes de la voz, las partes importantes, en conjunto. Esta falla de la coordinación es la que pienso que es la responsable de que Sutherland no pueda hacer estos cambios, esta integración de la dulzura y el dramatismo. U: Has…

EJ: ¿Que podrían agregar ustedes? U: Has dado justo en el blanco. El problema de Sutherland es sustancialmente resonancial y justamente esta falta de espacio es, de nuevo, un caso de entender mal esa ligereza, esa “morbidezza”, la confunde con falta de espacio, con languidez y lo que resulta es precisamente estos estos problemas de coordinación, precisamente por un mal trabajo resonancial. El resultado es, como dices, la difuminación de las vocales, no hay una coordinación entre, por ejemplo, en las dinámicas, me refiero, no hay un conducto de la voz, que diga “aquí hay eficiencia”, no la hay; y el resultado también es una voz blanca, tiene una resonancia blanca, pobre. El origen insisto, es un problema totalmente resonancial. EJ: Yo diría también fonatorio porque, bueno, es coordinación, implica ambos. U: Sí, porque lo va a afectar totalmente… EJ: Exacto, exacto.

U: Si está mal lo resonancial, va a 03:16 - afectar lo fonatorio, y después, y se nota en ella, va a haber también un problema de respiración. De nuevo ella confunde esa ligereza, esa esa nobleza del canto que, como dije, venía de las coloraturas como Adelina Patti, Tetrazzini, Melba… confunde esa ligereza, esa “morbidezza” de la voz y termina con problemas, ineficiencias fonatorias y de resonancia. EJ: Me parece muy muy correcto todo lo que has dicho. Elías, ¿qué podrías decirnos? Estoy esperando tu perspectiva. EC: No lo sé, creo que han dicho todo bastante muy preciso. Yo solo diría que hay cosas que rescatar, pero estamos hablando de gente que pudo haber sido mejor, U: Hay cosas que rescatar. Quizá… Sí, es una pena que esta voz se haya desperdiciado de esta manera. Porque si hay detrás una inteligencia que sabe entender el estilo, lo sabe entender pero… no lo sé, ¿qué fue lo que no entendió? ¿La voz? No supo concretar esa conexión entre el estilo y lala voz porque, en efecto, hay cosas que rescatar ahí, no por la ejecución estilística, sino por…

04:53 - por las intenciones, que yo no sé si eso al final importe. Pero, bueno, de todas maneras, recalcamos, es un caso en el cual hay cosas rescatables y por eso se diferencia un de lo que está más mal, como las siguientes dos mujeres que vamos a mencionar. EJ: Oh, wow… EC: Uy, uy. EJ: Aquí viene el problema. U: Las siguientes en la lista son Scotto y Sills. EJ: Estas van a las miniaturas, hehe U: Sí, de hecho. Veamos… Scotto y Sills… OK, como digo, estas dos mujeres se apartan totalmente de… de Sutherland. Porque estas dos mujeres ya entran en una deformación de un estilo, sobrepasan ya unos límites para llegar a unas cosas, lo voy a decir, GROTESCAS.

Lo que estas dos mujeres deformaron fue el renacimiento 06:16 - del belcanto, del verdadero belcanto, que había sido iniciado… este renacimiento iniciado por Maria Callas. El renacimiento de este verdadero belcanto que hizo Callas es este belcanto donde, en efecto, hay una búsqueda de la ligereza de la voz, diferente a la búsqueda de fuerza y la intensidad de la voz del verismo, hay una búsqueda de “morbidezza”, pero también están presente esos, así me gusta llamarlos, esos acentos dramáticos de las sopranos sfogato que existieron en el siglo 19, específicamente en tiempos de Rossini, Bellini, Donizetti y Verdi. También estas voces tenían la capacidad de tomar tanto los roles ligeros como los dramáticos, y es por eso que se les llamaba sfogato, como ya lo mencioné también en el vídeo de Callas. Si traducimos esta palabra, eran sopranos ilimitadas, porque cubrían todo todas las capacidades de la voz tanto estilísticas como del desarrollo de la voz.

Estas voces 07:42 - tenían la capacidad de sonar tanto a una soprano ligera como también a una soprano dramática. Es evidente el caso de Giuditta Pasta que, para ella, Bellini creó la Norma, que es para una soprano dramática; y para ella también creó la Amina de “La Sonnambula”, que ahora este rol no entra en la concepción de la gente si no es con una soprano ligera, pero realmente fue creado para la protagonista de Norma, que era una soprano dramática. Entonces, ¿qué pasa? Maria Callas renace ese verdadero belcanto, esa concepción de la voz Maria callas renace esta concepción de la voz, como una voz que es entrenada contemplando que abarque todo lo posible del repertorio. Entonces, deja esta herencia Callas y desgraciadamente se le jode la voz tempranamente y concepción renacida queda en manos de, pues, las sopranos que estaban en este momento apenas surgiendo, que es el caso de Scotto y Sills. De nuevo, está Maria Callas con ciertas cosas que en su voz podríamos decir que…

cuando ella ejecutaba ciertas estrategias técnicas, y voy a dar un ejemplo claro, 09:51 - por ejemplo, esto que también se lo decían a las sopranos del siglo 19, Pasta, por ejemplo, esta heterogeneidad en el rango vocal. Esta heterogeneidad en el rango vocal tenía un origen técnico, porque obviamente siendo una una técnica belcantista buscan la mayor eficiencia vocal y para encontrar esa eficiencia vocal necesitan sacrificar esa esa homogeneidad de la voz porque buscan una ligereza en las notas altas como una soprano y también todo el brillo y la expansión, toda la luz de la soprano en las notas altas, pero a la vez buscan una una oscuridad y una penetración en el grave como en una mzzosoprano y una contralto. No es una oscuridad en exceso, estamos hablando de una oscuridad que es totalmente resonancial, no es una búsqueda de fuerza ni de oscuridad como en el verismo, es una búsqueda de una oscuridad y una fuerza que viene de la resonancia, no hay que confundir eso. Entonces, para lograr eso, como digo, se sacrifica la homogeneidad de la voz a base de, como lo dije ya en el vídeo, a base de variadas relajaciones del tracto vocal que, pues, al final, particularmente en María Callas, podemos ver cuando ella hace una frase donde tiene que darle prioridad al registro bajo, si en esa frase hay una nota que salta esporádicamente a la zona alta, esta nota alta va a quedar un poco velada y un poco blanca, un tanto lánguida; porque es obvio… si estás dando tanta prioridad a la zona baja, obviamente la zona alta no va a salir completamente sólida; y esto lo podemos ver en las voces veristas, que buscan unos registros central y bajo muy fuertes e intensos, como es el caso de Ponselle, que siempre ella estaba buscando un centro y un bajo muy presente y la zona alta no la tenía tan sólida.

Bajo esa concepción técnica, 12:37 - surgen estas… limitaciones, que específicamente en Callas es esta heterogeneidad en el color, que aparecen zonas veladas en el rango, zonas opacas, o digamos… Zonas… Olvidé la palabra. EJ: ¿Que estaban de cierta manera algunas ahogadas? U: Sonidos sordos, notas sordas. Notas que si en la frase no se les da prioridad, resultan sordas si esas notas se salen de la tesitura de la frase. Entonces, ¿qué pasa con Scotto y Sills? Heredan esta nueva concepción pero, igual que los otros casos.. EJ: Domingo y Carreras.

U: Igual que esta gente, ven los resultados de esta 13:35 - estrategia, los defectos, las limitaciones, más bien, de esta estrategia, las ven como virtudes, y empiezan a tomarlas como base de la técnica de ella. What happens? Por ejemplo, Scotto cuando quiere hacer esta ligereza, igual que las otras voces ligeras de las que estábamos hablando, confunden esta ligereza esta búsqueda de sonidos blandos, confunde esto con una voz pequeña, confunden esta luminosidad que es compun de una voz que está aligerada; la confunde con una voz chillona. Y las notas agudas de Scotto son el evidente testimonio de esto. EJ: Oh, sí… Son nasales en un nivel impresionante, verdaderamente. Hay un vídeo de un calentamiento de ella, donde no hace vocales, no voales…

hace una /ñ/ 15:59 - infinita, en verdad, yo lo puedo afirmar. Tal vez podemos poner un fragmento. Yo quería mencionar la diferencia entre Sils y Scotto. Las similitudes que, bueno, las dos tratan de imitar a Maria Callas, y que las dos toman partes erróneas, partes que eran defectos que no se podían… U: Y… Usualmente, toman los defectos… Perdón por interrumpirte… usualmente ellas toman los defectos de una Callas que ya no está en su mejor forma. EJ: Exacto, exacto. Y esto lo suman a su interpretación, pero de lo que no se percatan es que estos defectos en la interpretación provarán que su voz decaiga con más rapidez.

No sólo eso, sino que la 17:07 - interpretación, a causa de estos efectos que no deberían estar, resulte, como tú mencionaste, grotesca, vulgar, no es una línea de canto apreciable. Y la diferencia notoria sería, en Sills, yo veo, bueno, yo percibo, un enfoque de “voce faringea”, “voce finte”. Pero es incompleta. U: Pero, aun así, es incompleta, es vulgar porque… EJ: Exacto. U:…comienzan a imitar los modos que no debieran haber imitado de Callas con con decadencia, por ejemplo, hay partes donde donde Callas desgraciadamente perdió cierta fluidez, y que detrás, de fondo, en Callas hay una verdadera intención estilística, pero, bueno, ya cuando estaba en decadencia obviamente se convierte en líneas de canto que no son tan regulares, no… no en todo porque sí hay muy buenas cosas de Maria Callas cuando ya está en decadencia y, de hecho, Norma, Medea, Lucia, esas siempre las hizo bien, jamás se escuchó su decadencia en esos roles, jamás, nunca. Entonces, Scotto y Sills, jamás, jamás entienden, jamás, nunca entendieron qué había de fondo, qué había detrás, qué intenciones tenía Callas para hacer sus adornos, las intenciones que ella tenía para construir sus frases, por qué ella utilizaba o por que ella traducía el lenguaje musical de las partituras de esa manera.

Ellas, Scotto y Sills, nunca 20:51 - entendieron eso, porque simplemente no tenían la inteligencia de Callas, no tenían la verdadera elegancia y ese talento y, perdón por lo que estoy diciendo, no quisiera menospreciarlas, pero es así, es decir, no tenían el intelecto de Callas simplemente, no tenían la elegancia. EC: Yo diría que copiaban el cliché. U: Sí, exactamente, sí. EC: Lo copiaban y lo reusaban, lo reusaban, pero no sabían el propósito… EJ: Exacto, el porqué. EC: El fin para el cual Callas lo usaba. U: Sí, porque… EC: Una muletilla. U: Sí. EJ: Exacto, exacto. Yo quisiera decir una cosa. Por supuesto, cuando Callas canta algo, y lo canta muchas veces, siempre hay cosas que puede usar para enriquecer la interpretación; estas cosas que se usan para enriquecer la interpretación pueden sacrificar ligeramente la mecánica y la línea central, pero es es jugar ahí con esa interpretación, con la intención y con el razonamiento, por eso estuvo bien dicho cuando Uzziel dijo que habían partes que las tomaban y no sabían el porqué. Es justamente esto lo que dice Elías, las convirtieron, esas cosas pequeñas que enriquecían la interpretación, en muletillas al no saber el por qué, al no comprender. U: Un ejemplo, cuando Callas hacia sonidos blandos, ella…

ya que su voz no era ligera, la voz Callas por naturaleza no era 24:03 - ligera, era una voz muy gruesa… Cuando iba a hacer sonidos ligeros y blandos, lograba el cometido de sonar como una soprano coloratura, pero no como una soprano coloratura natural y, obviamente, se veía de fondo la evidente naturaleza de una soprano dramática. Por lo tanto, lo que resultaba eran unos sonidos que, bueno, para mí no son sonidos desagradables, pero para otra gente pueden parecer sonidos chillones, y no siempre… Pero no eran chillones! Se lo decían también Giuditta Pasta, que tenía una notas agudas chillonas, pero debemos escuchar a Sills ya Scotto para saber qué es chillón. EJ: Oh, sí, sí. Para saber… Scotto decía que Callas sonaba como si estuvieran asesinando un gato EJ: Ahí se excedió. Ahí se excedió.

U: Pero realmente ella nunca se 25:21 - detuvo a pensar que ella sonaba como una ardilla, como si estuvieran torturando a una ardilla. Ahí… EJ: Ni la voz de ella se excedió tanto, pero lo que dijo sí. Con los sonidos que emitía la Scotto podemos saber qué es chillón. Debido a que no entienden el trasfondo técnico y estilístico para darle una intención y una base al estilo, no entienden el trasfondo técnico, entonces, igual que los otros casos que estábamos mencionando antes, caen en defectos técnicos, cierres totales de la faringe, son faringes totalmente colapsadas y, obviamente, como en el caso de Sutherland, por ejemplo, cuando quieren encontrar un “forte”… Scotto no puede. Scotto es totalmente incapaz de emitir una nota en “forte”, con firmeza y con resonancia verdaderamente eficiente y… EC: Con solidez. U: Con solidez, exactamente.

27:38 - Entonces, teniendo ya esa base técnica totalmente corrompida, ya no pueden construir una interpretación verdaderamente belcantista, ni verista ni nada, eso que hicieron estas dos mujeres no es nada. EJ: Es una incertidumbre. U: Esta búsqueda de los adornos que hacía Callas, de los clichés, como dice Elías, de estas formas, la búsqueda de esas formas elegantes… Debido a que no saben entenderlas técnicamente, debido a que no saben entender el trasfondo estilístico del lenguaje musical, terminan siendo totalmente vulgares. Ese es el resumen con estas dos mujeres: vulgaridad. EJ: Sólo para terminar, hablamos de que Sills tenía en proporción un desarrollo más elevado de la “voce faringea”, en cambio, Scotto usaba la nasalidad en las notas altas, por eso era incapaz de hacer un buen “forte”, y en las notas bajas se quedaba con bastante espacio, pero con dureza, es lo que he percibido en varias de sus grabaciones.

Y este es el inicio 29:10 - de cómo pasa de Callas, algo bueno, y los defectos de ella, tomarlos por otros cantantes, y luego las admiradoras de estas cantantes toman a ellas como ejemplos. U: Exactamente. EJ: Y esto es lo preocupante. U: Ellas, combinadas con los errores de Sutherland, estas tres mujeres combinadas, son el precedente de lo que veríamos desde los años 80, desde los 70. EJ: Sí. U: Son el precedente de lo que tenemos ahora simplemente. Dios mío… Cómo está la vida… EC: Como decía, es una teléfeno descompuesto. EJ: Sí, exactamente. U: Qué bien resumes todo lo que hablamos. EJ: Qué buena comparación. U: si queremos ver un ejemplo de la manera en que correctamente se deben adaptar los modos de Callas, que no son los modos de Callas, son los modos de la escuela puramente belcantista; si los queremos ver en otra soprano que no sea Callas, el ejemplo es Clara Patrella, que realmente ella se dedicó a los roles veristas, pero analicen a Callas cantando esos roles veristas, analicenlos y vean los, y van a ver que en Clara Petrella también están, eso que yo le llamo el “chiseled singing”, esta búsqueda de construir las frases como si estuviéramos cincelando un mármol, dándole forma a ese mármol… EJ: Ese concepto me encanta.

U: Y crear una escultura bella que tenga ese juego de sombras, ese juego 32:08 - de texturas y al final queda una frase que es una una escultura creada por un buen artista. EJ: Exactamente. U: Eso era el canto belcantista… EC: Que trascienda… EJ: Exactamente EC:… una escultura de sonido que trascienda su percepción sonora y que se perciba incluso casi físicamente. U: Una obra de arte en el aire. EJ: Y, saben, esto me remonta a Cotogni y su metodología de la intención… U: Sí, escuela belcantista. EJ: Esto justamente es lo que vamos a ver qué va a faltar en los barítonos y ya van a ver por qué, así que, Tenorino… Elías, Elias nos va a introducir. EJ: También agregar que lo podemos ver en Clara Petrella y en otra soprano “assoluta” que fue Lilli Lehmann, alemana, también de escuela del siglo 19, y en ella van a poder ver también el estilo puramente belcantista de ese “chiseled singing”… Saludos, gente. Les cuento que grabamos tres…

¡más de tres horas de conversación! Entonces vamos a tener que dividir 33:23 - esto en dos partes. Ya está aquí la primera parte, tenores y sopranos. La siguiente será acerca del resto de voces (excepto contraltos, perdón). Les dejo un adelanto y también les voy a dejar el final de la conversación completa porque tenemos algunos avisos importantes. EN EL PRÓXIMO EPISODIO DE “I CIARLATANI” * EC: Comenzaremos con Tito Gobbi. U: Él pone enfrente a la teatralidad en un extremo ya demasiado, demasiado anarquista.

33:51 - EJ: No encuentra ese centro, esa “mezza voce” correcta que es fundamental para el cincelado del cantante. * Yo, de hecho, pensaba que íbamos a hablar de Vinay. Sí, yo iba a decir que con este hombre tengo un problema personal. U: No puedo con la risa por cómo lo contaste. Dijiste: “yo era tan feliz, hasta que me encontré con esto”. EJ: Y ahora… * Si Vinay siguiera vivo, lo hubiera denunciado por maltrato emocional. U: Por daño a la moral… * U: En comparación con Tebaldi, Horne y Berganza son sopranos ligeras, o sea, yo… *…y si Horne y Berganza son mezzosopranos, entonces Callas es un barítono porque… * EJ: Una invitación a que las personas nos dejen sus preguntas. U: Próximamente va a haber más vídeos seguidos. Perdón por los meses que he estado ausente, ha sido para bien, se los aseguro, va a haber unos vídeos muy buenos próximamente.

Y, en efecto, dejen aquí sus 35:08 - preguntas, sus propuestas, para construir esta esta nueva sección del canal. Sobre cualquier tema, como este EJ: I Ciarlatani del Loggione. U: Temas como este acerca de cantantes sobrevalorados del pasado. Del presente no sé si lo vayamos a hacer. Sería interesante, por ejemplo, decir también cantantes buenos, pero del presente, no lo sé. EJ: Oh, sí, esa es una buena idea U: Ejemplos así, temáticas así. También directamente preguntas acerca de…

Enoc y Elías estuvieron mencionando 35:49 - cosas interesantes, acerca de técnica y algunos conceptos que no los explicaron con detalle, entonces también pueden preguntar eso, pregunten lo que sea. También pongan sus opiniones, las queremos saber, seguramente va a haber bastante descontento y queremos ver también sus opiniones, y quizás las respondemos en otro vídeo como éste. Dejen sus comentarios acerca de lo que hablamos, dudas, preguntas, propuestas de temas. Vamos a mencionar nuestras redes sociales, dónde nos pueden seguir. A mí, ya saben, aquí está el canal, suscribanse.

También pueden seguirme en Instagram, donde subo continuamente 36:45 - clips que les van a gustar, estoy seguro. También tengo facebook, pero lo tengo abandonado, no me gusta facebook y no lo suelo actualizar; pero aún así si quieren seguirme… Pueden escuchar este podcast en estas plataformas que van a aparecer en la pantalla. Enoc, ¿dónde se pueden seguir? EJ: Bueno… U: Porque también pueden hacer sus preguntas no sólo en los comentarios de este vídeo, también nos pueden mandar mensaje directo… EJ: Oh, personales, sí. U: Ya directamente en nuestras cuentas, si quieren y si tienen alguna propuesta. Ahí también nos pueden enviar. Enoc… EJ: Bueno, mis redes sociales… Tengo un canal en Youtube. Diré una cosa.

En los últimos vídeos que tengo, bueno, la técnica está mal, no está 37:46 - completa, así que… eso primero, y obviamente sigo trabajando ahora, para estar… Es parte del proceso para que tenga un buen desenlace. En instagram aparezco como Enoc Jordan, y en facebook estoy como Enoc Jordan Abi, igual que en Youtube, Enoc Jordan Abi. Bueno, eso es todo, más bien, agradecerles a ustedes por estar escuchando este podcast; nos la pasamos aquí muy bien, muy divertido, seguramente la siguiente ocasión será mucho mejor, porque estamos aprendiendo también. Y eso, muchas gracias a todos. U: Elías. EC: Bueno…

38:35 - No hay muchas cosas que puedan ver en mis redes sociales realmente, pero si desean seguirme y a ver algunas de las cosas que comparto a veces, esporádicamente, de temas en general, pueden seguirme en Facebook, estoy con el nombre de Elías Castillo, sencillamente, porque Instagram casi no lo uso. U: Perfecto. Como dice Enoc, esperamos que se hayan divertido con nosotros, fue divertido para nosotros, espero que para ustedes también, o si fue una experiencia desagradable… EJ: Esperemos no haberlos traumado como Vinay me traumó a mí, yo no podría vivir con eso. U: Realmente esperamos que se hayan divertido. Como dice Enoc, estaremos aprendiendo. Perdón por las fallas técnicas que quizás vayan a surgir, estamos apenas construyendo esto, les prometemos que iremos mejorando con el tiempo. Repito, esperamos que… EC: Al final,…

Como sea, 39:44 - solamente somos, como dice nuestro título, Charlatanes infiltrados en el Loggione que que es el lugar más exquisito, solamente ahí metidos opinando de lo poco que sabemos, porque, de lo contrario, no diríamos nada. U: Exactamente. Somos aficionados, tenemos nuestro derecho. Bueno, compartan esto, ya saben, con gente que crean que le pueda interesar esta conversación con nosotros y comenten, reitero la invitación, coméntenos qué opinan de lo que hablamos, coméntenos dudas, preguntas, propuestas, réplicas, reclamos, enojos… EJ: Deseos de muerte, también, todo es bienvenido. U: Nunca me han deseado en la muerte, ¿sabes? He tenido gente enojada… EJ: Yo creo que… U:…pero nunca me han deseado la muerte. EJ: Yo creo que después mencionar a Sutherland… U: Sospecho que habrá gente que me va a dejar de hablar, créeme, algunos canales…

41:02 - Espero que no, pero, bueno, espero que no se enojen. Como sea, muchas gracias por habernos sintonizado y los vemos en la próxima ocasión. ¡Muchas gracias! EJ: Adiós. EC: Addio… .