Alabama Virtual Farm Tour (J. Calvert Farms) Season 2, Tour 2

Aug 3, 2021 06:27 · 5676 words · 27 minute read

- My name’s Jeremy Calvert. My wife and I married in ‘99 and I’ve been in vegetable production now for better than 20 years.

00:12 - We’ve been growing strawberries for about 14 or 15 years.

00:17 - We started out in wholesale, red potatoes, and we were already doing that.

00:21 - And we’d do a limited amount of tomatoes, and not a whole lot, but she and I would do that just for extra money.

00:27 - And then, we were in commercial brawlers as well.

00:30 - We’re gonna head over and look at the strawberries.

00:33 - We can’t get there with a truck… I take that back, we can get there right now, but it’s just so muddy, I don’t put any vehicles in the field if at all possible.

00:42 - We just have five-and-a-half inches total over the last three days, something to that effect.

00:49 - We’re up to two acres of strawberries now, and I’m probably gonna have to increase a little bit more from that.

00:55 - In the first year, my wife and I planted…

00:57 - And it was just me and her, we planted 6,000 plants, and I picked them all by myself and she sold them.

01:03 - She’d helped me pick when she had time, but that’s how we started out.

01:08 - And this field was in no-till production four years prior to this.

01:13 - Two years of that was in no-till soy beans.

01:16 - A year of it was in no-till pumpkin’s. And then, last year, it had a cover crop…

01:23 - Over winter, the cover crop of rye, clover and vetch.

01:26 - And then, we drilled in sun hemp on top of that.

01:30 - Terminated it the last week of July and we laid this plastic (mumbles) around the 10th of September, if I remember correctly.

01:40 - I never irrigate fruit that we’re about to pick.

01:43 - We pick, then I irrigate. By that time, the fruit’s already on a dry cycle, and so sugar content is gonna be at its highest when you pick.

01:53 - That’s my goal, and that’s the reason to have computerized irrigation.

01:57 - You don’t forget and leave the water on. When berries have long stems like this and big (indistinct), you see how wide this berry here is, it’s not a perfect example of what I would consider but if it has the right conditions on it and I’ll do my job, and it’s left ‘till its prime to pick, that berry would be as big as the palm of my hand.

02:14 - I’ve got pictures of ‘em from years past, when they do that.

02:18 - Not every one is gonna do that, but I can tell you that one will, I can tell by looking at it.

02:22 - When you see one that’s small, say like this right here, you might get a big berry out of that but it doesn’t have the potential that this other one has.

02:34 - They’re just two very different systems there.

02:39 - And of course, you can also see what’s coming on.

02:42 - There’s a lot coming on here. I hadn’t counted the crowns on any of the plants yet.

02:48 - If they hadn’t changed, they say the perfect strawberry plant’s between seven and 11 crowns per plant.

02:53 - That’s the perfect plant. And those things are always…

03:00 - A lot of the time, out of our control. That’s just something we…

03:02 - We can’t always control that. All of our strawberry buckets come from Southern Container in Wilson, North Carolina, and some of our peach baskets come from them.

03:12 - And then, we’ve started using a new peach basket supplier out of Clanton this time, for our peach baskets.

03:19 - Our boxes come from one of two places; They come from the Birmingham Farmer’s market.

03:25 - The market in Birmingham actually keeps wax boxes for their growers, for squash, cucumbers, peppers, stuff like that, and they also keep tomato boxes.

03:34 - I’ll either get tomato boxes from them or Blount County Co-op, they handle all that kind of stuff.

03:40 - We do wholesale some berries, but that’s not the goal.

03:44 - The goal is retail. If I was a young beginning grower, that’s what I would be focused on, is that retail dollar.

03:52 - Without that, it’s tough. There’s just not enough money there.

03:57 - The product goes through too many hands taking out of the pie, and at the end of the day, you don’t get paid enough.

04:02 - You think, “I can sell 100 buckets a day “at any given day, selling strawberries,” well, strawberries don’t pick that way.

04:11 - One day you may pick 50 buckets, and the next day you may pick 150.

04:15 - So in order to compensate for those days that you pick 50, you’ve got to have a little bit more production than what you need, which means inevitably, sooner or later, you’re gonna have to wholesale some, and we’ve got a few outlets where we sell.

04:27 - We sell some to some schools and just some other different wholesale outlets I’ve picked up over the years.

04:35 - If I had to say one thing, it was kind of challenging for us over the years is we didn’t grow up in the vegetable industry so we really didn’t know anybody, and it took 20 years to get some of the contacts that I’ve got now, not because people didn’t want to buy from us but because they didn’t know us, or they already had a supplier, or, you know, maybe they thought their supplier did a little better job, or maybe later on, they think I do a little better.

05:02 - Who knows? But it just took time to build all those contacts.

05:05 - The effects of the COVID pandemic had on my particular operation was…

05:09 - Honestly, in the field, it didn’t really change very much.

05:12 - Retail markets, it changed things a lot for us.

05:16 - The way we built our store enabled us to basically turn it into a drive-through, and we did that with everything except pumpkins.

05:24 - It’s just hard to have a pumpkin drive-through, that just won’t work.

05:28 - We had some consumers that didn’t like it, and they wanted to be able to get out and touch it and examine their product.

05:34 - For the vast majority of people, they really liked it.

05:37 - One of the biggest benefits, I think, came out of it was in the retail vegetable business, we’ve always had a problem with consumers wanting to touch the product.

05:50 - Well, we eliminated that, and it gave us a good reason to.

05:53 - We started web sales and, initially, it was pretty good, but as the pandemic wore on and people got a little less afraid, it kinda got to where it wasn’t as good as what it once was.

06:04 - I wouldn’t say we’re not doing it anymore, but it just not what it once was.

06:08 - And another thing for us, we’re kind of established.

06:10 - We’ve been here for several years now and so, we don’t really worry too much about advertising.

06:15 - She’ll advertise on Facebook because it’s cheap.

06:19 - I would encourage any grower to do that. It’s just cheap, free advertising.

06:23 - And if you want to boost a post, it’s relatively cheap to do that.

06:26 - We do our best to sell a strawberry the day it’s picked or the next.

06:30 - Very, very rarely will it ever go the next day.

06:32 - It’s hard to put a product in a consumer’s hand that’s been picked for three days…

06:38 - That’s good, is what I’m trying to say. Generally, we may…

06:45 - Especially in peak season, we may be picking strawberries most all the day, but we do our best to be done picking by lunchtime, because heat’s a factor.

06:52 - We try to do that with everything. Doesn’t always work that way, but the bad thing about vegetables is you’re not selling rocks.

07:00 - Rocks will last from now ‘til eternity, they’re not gonna go bad.

07:03 - Vegetable should have been sold yesterday, that’s just the attitude you got to learn to take.

07:07 - And so, what we were talking about, post-harvest management, it can be a big deal.

07:12 - It’s the difference in determining whether your consumer gets a good product or a bad product.

07:17 - You can grow the finest product in the world but if you don’t manage it post-harvest and get it to your consumer in a timely manner, it’s not gonna matter what you do.

07:25 - The issue we have here with springtime and where we live, inevitably we always get the three or four each rain, it can cause some issues.

07:34 - And water cannot stand on plastic, it’s just a nightmare.

07:38 - Nothing does well, you cause so many issues.

07:41 - I try to lay fields out where it’ll drain, but it don’t always work that way.

07:47 - Sometimes, there’ll be a low spot or a high spot in the field that you’ll never notice until you lay plastic on it.

07:53 - But first thing, if you’re a beginning farmer, you’re gonna have to plan ahead enough to have this soil loose.

07:58 - If you’ve got a cover crop on it, or a grass crop of any type, you need to have it plowed under at least a month before you ready to lay plastic.

08:05 - And once you get the soil loosened up, and get it weed-free and get it in good condition, then you come back in with a plastic layer and lay off your road however you want to lay them off.

08:17 - Everybody’s got their own different system.

08:19 - As a general rule, I use four foot plastic, almost everything except strawberries, and we use five foot on it because we double row it.

08:26 - Four foot’s much easier to work with. It’s easier to lay, easier to get up, cost less.

08:35 - It’s a third less cost than five foot plastic.

08:39 - And you can also go with three foot plastic.

08:42 - I’ve got a three foot plastic layer, but one of the issues I don’t like is the little three foot plastic layer lays on not a tall bed, and I like a tall bed for several reasons.

08:56 - Number one, it gets you up out of the water if you’ve got any standing water anywhere.

09:00 - But the second one is it’s much easier to apply herbicides in your middles and not potentially have crop damage.

09:07 - The shallower that bed, the easier it is to be able to get herbicide up on the plastic where you don’t want it, and eventually you’re gonna get it on your cash crop.

09:15 - And that’s one of the reasons I like tall bed soil.

09:18 - The drawback to tall beds is it takes more water.

09:21 - You got a bed that’s up out of the soil more, and it’s gonna dry a little faster, so it’s gonna take more water.

09:29 - You probably want to consider that with what water source you might have.

09:33 - One of the reasons this plastic’s laid so early, I’d love to wait a month to be able to lay plastic, but in our business, everything the earlier the better.

09:42 - It’s all about early production if at all possible.

09:45 - I don’t pick a low field or something that’s not gonna dry out fast.

09:48 - You want to pick your highest, driest spot to be able to get in there. Well, this fits that category.

09:53 - We’ll plant squash and cucumbers here, probably in the next 10 days.

09:57 - We will set out tomatoes no later than the 15th of April.

10:00 - And I don’t think we’ve ever had a crop completely taken out by frost.

10:07 - I don’t remember one, if there has been. And we’ll probably plant some sweet corn in the next 10 days or so.

10:13 - You’ll hear debates back and forth about sweet corn on plastic.

10:17 - I have seen it… If you’ll treat it properly and take care of it, I’ve seen it make four ears to the stall.

10:22 - Then, what we’ll do, once we finish that early plant sweet corn, we’ll go in and mow sweet corn off and come back in with some type of cucurbit crop, and get two crops out of it.

10:32 - And by doing that, it’s justifiable in my opinion.

10:35 - It’s economically justifiable. Here, if I’m not careful, I lay such a high bed, I run out of plastic.

10:42 - You can see how I’ve just barely got the edges covered.

10:45 - These first six rows, here’s where I started, and I was still getting everything adjusted.

10:49 - And we had to go back and shove a little bit on some of these.

10:52 - A determinate tomato’s one is gonna get about four or four-and-a-half feet and quit growing.

10:56 - An indeterminate tomato will grow as long as the plant can survive.

11:00 - It’ll grow to frost. The problem with indeterminate tomatoes is…

11:06 - Well, it’s the problem with any vegetable. The farther you get away from that root, it’s harder to have bigger, pretty fruit, if that makes sense.

11:18 - The closer you are to the root, the easier it is to have big fruit.

11:22 - The reason is you’re supporting more plant.

11:25 - If you’ve got a plant that’s six foot long and you got a tomato on the end of it, it takes more juice, or more plant nutrients, whatever you want to call it, to make that tomato bigger than it did the plant, the tomato, that was one foot from the root.

11:38 - And so, the advantage to determinate tomatoes is they’re a little easier to manage, they get so high, and they only gonna produce so long.

11:45 - The disadvantage is you’re gonna have to have successive plannings to keep steady production.

11:50 - That’s the disadvantage to them. We’re always experimenting, throwing a new stuff in, just try it and see what happens, ‘cause even if you take someone else’s word for it, that something new worked for them, that doesn’t mean it’s gonna work on your farm.

12:05 - You’ve got to experience it for yourself. And you never wanna just wholeheartedly go into something new without knowing anything about it.

12:11 - You got try a little of it to be able to know.

12:14 - And sometimes, something that works for someone else might work for you, but you’re gonna have to do it just a little bit differently than they did to get the same results.

12:24 - This field’s been in conventional cultivation for two years.

12:27 - It was in no-till prior to that for two or three years.

12:30 - And after these two years of conventional cultivation, it will go back into no-till probably for four to six years, somewhere in that neighborhood, with cover crop rotation and also, cash crop rotation.

12:42 - Let’s say this was in squash and we were picking squash right now and we had a four inch rain, now we’ve got two choices to get that squash out of the field: We can either haul it out or we can tote it out.

12:52 - If you put a vehicle out here right now, guess what’s gonna happen? You’re gonna get stuck.

12:55 - With no-till, you eliminate a lot of that. You can travel on the ground when it’s a little bit wetter, it doesn’t cause any issues.

13:01 - Numerous things make it much better for your soil.

13:04 - We always gonna have to do some conventional tillage to get early production.

13:08 - That’s just the way it’s always gonna have to be on black plastic, but it doesn’t have to be the same spot every year, we move that around.

13:15 - And then you can only abuse the soul so long, sooner or later it catches up with you.

13:20 - You’ve got to take care of it. Anywhere there’s a dirt road that’s traveled very much and when it’s dry, if dust comes off that dirt road and floats across any field or any high tunnel, that’s where you’ll have spider mites first.

13:32 - They live in that dust. I don’t have a huge problem with mites.

13:37 - We try to stay away from pyrethroid insecticides, that has a lot to do with it.

13:41 - If you use a lot of pyrethroids, you’re gonna have more mites.

13:43 - It flares them up. If you get in a streak here, where we hadn’t had rain for four to six weeks, you’re gonna see some spider mites.

13:51 - That’s just kind of weather they love. They love that kind of stuff.

13:54 - They can’t take cool, wet temperatures. Hot, dry weather’s what they like.

13:58 - As a beginning grower, a vegetable grower especially, I’d say your number one hurdle is gonna be labor.

14:04 - That a huge issue. We use H-2A labor.

14:08 - Without that, we would have to make drastic changes without it.

14:13 - It’s expensive, it costs you more money, there’s a lot of government red tape, but at the end of the day, you got legal, dependable labor and there’s just a lot of advantages to it too.

14:24 - This is a blackberry planting. It’s in its third year.

14:27 - We’ll be going into our third year on this blackberry planting.

14:30 - We started out with less than 100 plants and now we’re…

14:37 - I really don’t know how many I’ve got, it’s several hundred.

14:40 - How I got started in blackberries was we’d contemplate growing some for a few years, and Arnold Kaler kind of helped me get started in ‘em, and he’s been kind a driving force behind that, and has helped us get to where we are now, and it’s been good for our operation.

15:01 - All of our blackberries came from AgriStarts in Florida, they were tissue culture plants.

15:07 - Anybody that want to get started in blackberries, I’d recommend you go with tissue culture plants.

15:11 - You’re getting a virus-free plant. We’ve went in and pruned them.

15:15 - We’re doing our tying system a little different than this now.

15:19 - This is basically just like you would tie a determinate tomato, we’ve just put string on both sides of it but we’re converting most of our blackberries over to a T-trellis, and I like it better.

15:31 - There’s some drawbacks to doing things like this.

15:35 - One of the drawbacks is about the time you’re picking a crop of blackberries, it’s putting up new canes and you don’t really have a way to control them so they kind of fall out of the way and inevitably, sooner or later, you get some wind damage on them.

15:49 - And with T-trellis that’s permanent and constant there, you don’t have all that problem.

15:55 - You’ve got something to hold that cane while you’re waiting, while you’re picking a crop.

16:01 - We met AgriStarts, we met a representative of theirs at vegetable growers’ conferences, the one in Alabama, as well as the one in Savannah, Georgia.

16:09 - We try to go to the one in Savannah, Georgia every year.

16:12 - And the trade show is how we’ve met a lot of where…

16:16 - Where I’ve purchased a lot of this stuff, but I would encourage any vegetable grower that’s serious about it to go to…

16:22 - And it never fails. A growers’ vegetable conference comes up at the wrong time.

16:27 - You need to be doing something on your operation and you think, “I don’t have time to go,” but it pays off in the long term to go to these classes, to go to vegetable conferences and meet other people because everyone that I’ve ever been to, I…

16:42 - After a while you hear a lot of the same things, you see a lot of the same people, but I always come away with something.

16:50 - Cover crop is a crop that’s planted to not specifically be sold for cash.

16:55 - It’s planted specifically to build the soil and maintain nutrients.

17:01 - And in our case also, you can get an idea of the lay of the land to control erosion.

17:06 - Some of our ground, it’s best not to plow it up, if at all possible.

17:12 - It doesn’t work real well when you get large rains, and so we totally eliminate all that with cover crops.

17:17 - What we have here is rye, clover and vetch.

17:21 - Rye seeded in at 50 pounds of the acre, Vatche it around 15 pounds of the acre, and crimson clover, around 10, if I’m not mistaken.

17:30 - This was planted first part of last October and basically stays dormant till about now, this is March the 19th of 2021.

17:40 - And the last two weeks, it’s like you can almost stand back and watch it grow.

17:45 - But what we’ll do is we’ll let the cover crop get up to shoulder height on me or so, somewhere in that neighborhood, and then we’ll (indistinct) it down, and then we’ll do no-till vegetables into this.

17:57 - This field will probably be in no-till pumpkins.

18:00 - We had no-till tomatoes here last year, some no-till sweet corn, and some other crops, as well as some squash and cucumbers that were no-till, but mainly no-till tomatoes here, last year.

18:12 - We’ve been using cover crops for probably at least 12 years.

18:17 - All of our fruit and our vegetable crops, they’re cover crops.

18:20 - This ground will probably stay in a cover crop rotation for six years.

18:25 - Cover crop in the winter and a cash crop in the summer, back to a cover crop in the winter, cash crop; It’ll probably stay in that rotation for about six years or so before we make a change.

18:37 - And the whole time, we’re constantly building organic matter, which you can never get enough of, and adding nutrients to our soil and stopping erosion.

18:46 - Most of what I know about cover crops came from Arnold Kaler, who was superintendent of the Experiment Station in Cullman in North Alabama, and he heavily researched cover crops and adapted cover crops into a lot of vegetable production.

19:05 - I had used them prior to knowing him but I didn’t use them to the extent that we do now until he started doing his research.

19:13 - It’s something everybody needs to incorporate into their operation, if at all possible.

19:18 - Now, one of the drawbacks is sometimes you need a little more land than what you would need otherwise to incorporate cover crops, but there’s no question in my mind, it pays off in the long run.

19:29 - It’s a long-term goal. This particular orchard is 12 years old, the oldest one’s 15 years old.

19:36 - How we got involved in it is… I dunno if I’d attribute it to laziness or just what I would attribute to, but really what caught my eye was, “You know what? “I’d like to pick a crop where “I don’t have to bend over all the time. ” And so, we decided we might want to get into the peach business, and I’ll give Mike Reeves credit.

19:56 - Mike was a big factor in helping me get started in the peach business.

20:00 - He’s a little bit north of here at Hartselle.

20:02 - His family has been growing peaches since about 1959, I think.

20:05 - And one of the first things you come across when you want to grow peaches is, “Well, you can’t do it this far north, “or you’ll get killed by cold. ” And Chilton County is the best place to grow peaches.

20:17 - And so, nobody had ever really grown commercial peaches here so nobody knew.

20:21 - And then, when you don’t know, there is but one way to find out.

20:24 - And I set out trees and the Lord has been very good to us, we’ve had consistent peach crops, knock on wood.

20:33 - It just kind of grew, like the strawberries.

20:35 - We started out with 380 trees, I believe, and now, we’re up to somewhere around 1,300.

20:42 - I’ve lost track. Most of mine came from Cumberland Valley.

20:46 - I’ve got some from Vaughn and some from Freedom.

20:49 - There’s three nurseries that I’ve dealt with.

20:52 - But they come a bare root plant. We usually try to set ours out in the first half of February, when we set out new trees.

21:00 - Try to subsoil where the trees are gonna go.

21:03 - It doesn’t seem like much, you wouldn’t think it would make that much difference, but in years, say we set out an orchard and then…

21:11 - You’re always gonna lose a few trees. Well, the next year you go back and replant the ones you’ve lost, that tree never catches up to the others.

21:18 - And it’s not because it’s a year behind, it’s something else.

21:22 - And it’s just my opinion that when you subsoil where that tree is gonna go, it just allows those roots to go wherever they need to go and grow quicker.

21:31 - I’ve learned a lot as I went on. One of the hardest things to figure out was how to prune, how to thin, and some things, you just only learn by doing it.

21:43 - Pruning is when we go in here with lopping shears and hand shears, and we’re gonna thin out wood.

21:49 - Peach tree makes fruit on second year’s wood, this red wood like you see right here.

21:56 - This is three-year old wood, and this is not ideal.

22:00 - What we ideally want… And this is not a good example of it.

22:04 - This is an example of when a young grower starts out and didn’t know what he was doing, and he finally figured it out but it’s too late to fix it.

22:11 - Ideally, we would want fruit wood up and down this limb.

22:16 - We would want redwood, about so long, up and down the whole limb so that we would fruit the entire area.

22:25 - Well, that’s not what we have here. Most of my fruit woods in the top of the tree and we’re working on that, we’ve changed things.

22:31 - But ideally, this is perfect fruit wood right here, about the size of a pencil.

22:36 - Lots of blooms, nice and healthy. And at the end of the day, this limb needs one peach on it.

22:42 - Not one bad peach, one good peach. Thinning is, just what I said, like this limb right here that’s got 25-30 flowers on it, when it actually sets fruit, we’re gonna come back in and that limb needs one peach on it.

22:59 - So somebody has… By hand, all those have to come off.

23:03 - They can’t act like a wild man, you can’t go crazy with it.

23:06 - It’s slow, it’s time consuming, and it takes labor to do it.

23:10 - If this tree was pruned correctly, and I wanted to thin it by myself, I could spend at least an hour here and probably still not be done.

23:20 - So that gives you an idea about how many hands it takes to do this.

23:24 - A mature tree can only support so much fruit and it gets big and pretty There’s a certain amount of growth there.

23:31 - You can disperse that growth amongst 1,000 peaches, and it’ll be this big, or you can disperse that grossed amongst 320 peaches, and they’ll be this big.

23:42 - So I don’t… No more than 500 peaches on this tree, preferably less than that.

23:47 - This limb here has probably got, just guessing, I’m gonna say at least 40 blooms on it.

23:53 - Ideally, it needs one or two peaches. Two at the most.

23:59 - Once you get past the point you think you’re okay from the cold weather, you think, “I’ve got a crop “and we’re not gonna get froze out,” then you’ve got a limited window to when all that fruit has to come off.

24:12 - When I can take… Let’s say this bloom, it turns into a peach, and this peach is so big; when I can take my pocket knife and cut through that green peach, and the seed gets hard enough that it slows my knife down, I should have been finished thinning.

24:28 - You’ve hurt size. You’ll do good thinning from that point on, but you’ve hurt size up to that point.

24:34 - You’ve cost yourself some growth. So what I’m getting at is thinning is the hardest job that has to be done the quickest of any job in the orchard.

24:42 - You’ve got a set window to do it there of about two-and-a-half weeks.

24:46 - And it’s not that you can’t thin after that or can’t thin before that, it’s just that that’s the best window to do it.

24:52 - And so, just imagine how many peaches is gonna be on this tree and what all has got to come off, and it’s all done by hand.

25:00 - You can pick peaches the third year, expect to pick a fair amount of peaches the third year.

25:05 - The second year, you basically need to… Standard practice is to pull all the peaches off the second year, if it makes any, because you’re still building the tree.

25:16 - You need to build a tree before you can pick quality fruit.

25:20 - So the third year, you expect to pick a small amount and really the fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh year is when the tree’s in its prime.

25:28 - So you’re looking at, at least, a four year investment before you could see some decent return.

25:34 - That might not be true, you could probably pay for the tree the third year.

25:39 - But to be fair, the tree itself is not the main cost.

25:42 - The cost of production’s in labor and maintenance and of course, chemicals.

25:49 - That’s another cost as well. The (indistinct) is real close to me.

25:54 - I use them and then I also use Blount County Co-op, they deliver to me so it works out real well for me.

26:00 - I don’t have to send a driver, I don’t have to go get it myself.

26:03 - I don’t buy just pesticides from them, I buy fertilizer, plastic drip tape, irrigation supplies, they handle a lot of stuff, from both of those suppliers.

26:13 - As far as our particular operation goes, I could see gains that could be made in agritourism.

26:19 - It’s not something I’m particularly interested in myself.

26:22 - However, that being said, it’s very possible one or both of my daughters could come on and they could very well like that aspect of things.

26:30 - And if they do, that’s gonna be their baby.

26:33 - I would like, at some point… To be fair with you, I would like at some point to be where I am right now.

26:39 - My wife and I started out where we did everything, and I never really thought we’d get past that point.

26:46 - I really thought we would probably just be small enough that it was just both of us for a large part of our life, but it’s grown now to the point to where I’ve got more employees, I don’t do as much as the physical work as what I once did.

27:01 - I still do a lot of it but I don’t do it as much as I did, it’s more of a management role.

27:07 - I’m not sure I didn’t like it better when it was…

27:09 - When I did the physical part of things. But anyway, it’s a little easier on me now.

27:14 - The drawback to that is you got a pay roll, and you got to make payroll, things along those lines.

27:21 - But as far as our future’s concerned, what we would plan for is just to continue to be able to steadily grow and survive.

27:33 - I’m not sure that I ever want to be super huge.

27:35 - I don’t know that I want to deal with the headaches of it, but I do want to be able to survive and support my family, and live in prosperity.

27:45 - That that’s what I’d like. .