Week 1: When the Last Thing You Want to Do is Forgive

00:09 - You guys, this is Bible Study number 51 here at Proverbs 31 Ministry.

00:14 - LT: Wow that is incredible. MT: Isn’t it incredible? LT: It’s great.

00:17 - Yeah. MT: My name is Melissa Taylor, and I am joined by the author of Forgiving What You Can’t Forget, and President of Proverbs 31 Ministries, Lysa TerKeurst.

00:25 - LT: Thank you so much, Melissa, it’s such an honor to be here with you.

00:29 - And we’ve done a lot of life together you know? MT: Yes, we have.

00:32 - A lot of years. LT: Years and years, I was trying to think this morning, how long we’ve known each other.

00:38 - And has it been like 20 years? MT: It has I remember the first time I met you, you were taking your kids to a movie, and I was taking my kids to a movie to see Lilo and Stitch.

00:49 - That’s how long ago. LT: How in the world do you remember that? MT: I don’t even know, because I was meeting Lysa TerKeurst.

00:53 - LT: And I was meeting Melissa Taylor, so. MT: I remembered it so well.

00:58 - But I know some of you are new to Online Bible Study.

01:01 - So, we want to welcome you and Lysa, for those of you who are a little unfamiliar with your story, or maybe they don’t know, you know, why you wrote this book.

01:09 - Tell us a little bit about Lysa TerKeurst. LT: Yeah, so the main backdrop of the book is just walking through some really devastating, hurts and wins.

01:21 - But it wasn’t just present day hurts and wins.

01:24 - I think a lot of people know my story of I found that my husband was being unfaithful.

01:30 - And I was shocked and shattered. And so just devastated during that time.

01:39 - And what I started to recognize is that, as I started this process of forgiveness, and trying to walk forward, there was a lot of pain from my past that was unresolved.

01:51 - That was feeding the very present-day resistance to forgiveness.

01:56 - And so, it sent me into this world of trying to really heal, not just from what I was facing right in front of me, but also some things that were unresolved in my past.

02:08 - And, you know, I would have told you, “Oh, no, I’ve really dealt with everything I need to deal with in my past. ”.

02:13 - But when I look at the concept of forgiveness, I think the thing that was making it so complicated to me is in theory, I had forgiven, right, but I really didn’t have marked moments of forgiveness.

02:30 - I didn’t really know how to forgive, and I didn’t know what to do with those feelings, those triggers those painful situations that would happen that would make me doubt that I have actually forgiven.

02:41 - MT: Right. This must have been a difficult book for you to write.

02:44 - Was it hard to as you, I mean, are probably reliving things that you’re including in the book? How did you get through the writing process? LT: Well, it was a difficult book to write because it’s not a message I ever wanted to have to live.

02:59 - And then I know whenever I sit down to write a book, I’m going to be knee deep studying this topic for two years.

03:07 - And so, I really want to make sure it’s something that I need to work on.

03:14 - Because that’s where my best writing comes from, is when I’m struggling with something, and I want to have the Lord address it.

03:23 - And so, it’s, you know. It’s a deeply intensely personal journey for me.

03:29 - MT: Right. LT: So, this message was so hard for me to write because I was so resistant to forgiveness.

03:36 - And I wouldn’t have said that I would have told you at the beginning, “Like yeah, I should work on some forgiveness stuff. ”.

03:43 - And so, you know, that’ll be a great topic for me to write.

03:46 - But as I got into it, I started to find little hidden places of bitterness in my heart that I wasn’t attributing to bitterness.

03:57 - MT: Right. LT: But even more than that, I just found myself feeling like resistant to forgiveness, because forgiveness started to feel like to me an unfair gift that I had to give to the person that hurt me.

04:10 - MT: Right. LT: And I didn’t want to do it.

04:15 - Isn’t it so strange with forgiveness, it feels like it’s too soon to work on forgiveness until it feels like it’s too late to work on forgiveness? MT: Yes.

04:23 - LT: And then it just never seems to be the perfect time.

04:25 - MT: Right. LT: And I remember in one particularly hard season, where it looked like everything was falling apart, and then everything fell apart worse.

04:38 - And I went to my counselor. And I remember just walking in that day feeling like I don’t know if I’m going to be able to make it, I was having a hard time just putting one foot in front of the other and I don’t know if you’ve ever been in a season where truly just breathing and getting through that day takes us as much energy as you can muster up, and so it was just a very, very hard season.

05:05 - And my counselor looked at me and said, Lysa, do you want to heal? And I said, Yes, I do want to heal.

05:11 - And he said, today’s a good day to start working on forgiveness.

05:14 - And I remember looking at him and thinking, are you crazy? I know.

05:18 - MT: I want to heal, but you just crossed the line.

05:20 - LT: Yeah, if you wanna just address the fact that I haven’t washed my hair in like 10 days.

05:23 - MT: I remember reading this in the book, you weren’t even sure if you had deodorant on, but you saw some peach air freshener.

05:28 - LT: Yes MT: In the bathroom that she was like, “Okay, I can just use this. ”.

05:31 - LT: Yeah, I thought, I’m a resourceful woman.

05:33 - So yeah, I’d sprayed peach air freshener on myself before I walked into the appointment.

05:38 - So, I walked in smelling like a freshly baked peach cobbler.

05:40 - That’s what I said in the book. But I just remember Jim saying, my counselor, his name is Jim, like, you know, we’re going to work on forgiveness.

05:49 - And I just thought, how can you possibly work on forgiveness when the other person hasn’t said they’re sorry.

05:55 - When they’re not owning what they did. When I’m not sure I’m done hurting over this.

06:00 - MT: Right. LT: And I know in one place in the book, I wrote, hurt feelings don’t often want to cooperate with holy instructions.

06:08 - And I was just so hurt. The thought of forgiveness felt so cruel to me almost MT: Well, you know, you also write about how as Christians, we know, we’re supposed to forgive.

06:18 - But if you had written a book on forgiveness, because you just know that is the biblical thing to do.

06:24 - 10 years ago, 15 years ago, I bet it would look nothing like the book that you’ve written today, because of how you’ve had to face forgiveness at this time.

06:33 - LT: I don’t think I would have written it with the appropriate amount of angst.

06:39 - Because you know, when you talk about forgiveness, forgiveness spans a vast array of hurts, wounds, offenses.

06:48 - And people attach the word forgiveness to some of the most devastating things that they’ve faced.

06:54 - Some of the ways that people have hurt them the most.

06:56 - And I think if I would have written this book, 10 years ago, I probably would have been so far removed from the sources of devastation, because I did go through some really hard things as a child, but I think it would have felt like I was making forgiveness too easy.

07:15 - MT: Right. LT: And that’s why I’m grateful God had me write it in the midst of my own healing journey, because I can so clearly identify with what someone’s feeling when they’re so hurt.

07:31 - And now they have to work on forgiveness. And it just feels like an impossibly, sometimes cruel command by God.

07:39 - And so, I’m grateful, I was able to write it in that place.

07:44 - And I think when people sit down to read a book more than being taught, they want to be understood.

07:50 - And that’s where they are when they start reading the book.

07:53 - And so, I don’t come out swinging in the book, saying you should forgive.

07:58 - I just simply and gently start with the pain, because that’s where someone is, when they pick up this message.

08:06 - There’s something that has caused them a lot of pain.

08:09 - And I want to start there, because that’s where I had this start.

08:11 - MT: I felt like as I was reading this, that I had permission to still be in pain, like I had permission to not be to the point of where I was saying, I forgive you, or even if I’ve said, I forgive you really going through the process and facing the things that happen after forgiveness when you really have forgiven, and we’ll talk about that some as we go through this study.

08:33 - But you know, this book is about forgiveness.

08:36 - But it’s also about unforgiveness too. Unforgiveness as a place that many of us live because it’s just hard to forgive.

08:44 - It’s painful, and it’s messy. But yet, forgiveness is obviously a big deal to God because He sent Jesus.

08:52 - And so, talk to us a little bit about that unforgiveness.

08:55 - LT: Well, I think some of us are eager to just move on.

08:59 - MT: Right. LT: Like, I just don’t want to deal with this anymore.

09:02 - I want the pain to go away. And especially if the relationship, if there’s a relationship involved in that if that relationship is not restored, then it can just feel like this is a useless activity.

09:15 - They don’t want my forgiveness. So why would I do the hard work of giving forgiveness, you know? MT: Right.

09:22 - Right, it’s a lot of work. LT: And so, I think we miss understand what forgiveness really is.

09:27 - Forgiveness is not just an unfair gift that you have to give the other person, the person that hurt you.

09:35 - Forgiveness is really God’s gift to the hurting human heart, so that we can be cleaned out from those things that will taint our heart.

09:48 - You know, when bitterness and unforgiveness and anger and resentment when it comes knocking.

09:53 - It doesn’t just want to like come for a visit.

09:56 - It wants to move in and in takeover. MT: Right.

10:00 - LT: And it will start to, the evidence of unforgiveness will start to leak out and taint every relationship that we have.

10:08 - And so, I had to recognize that I can’t just move on, I really do need to do the work of forgiveness.

10:18 - And I also had to realize that forgiveness doesn’t originate with me.

10:22 - I can’t wait until I feel forgiving, to try to conjure up this forgiveness that God talks about in the Bible.

10:31 - Forgiveness doesn’t start with me. Forgiveness starts with God.

10:35 - God is the originator of forgiveness. And so really, forgiveness is not based on my determination, like I determined, I’m gonna write out this forgiveness.

10:46 - Forgiveness is based on my cooperation with what God has already provided.

10:50 - And as God’s forgiveness flows to me, I simply must cooperate with it and let it flow through me.

10:57 - And it’s in that passing through that cleans my heart out from unforgiveness, bitterness, and anger.

11:03 - But I do want to say one other thing, because I think this is really important.

11:07 - Sometimes, you know, when we hear the word bitterness, we can get very defensive.

11:14 - Because I don’t want to say we, I’ll just put this on me, like, I can get defensive, because I’m like, I’m not bitter.

11:19 - MT: Right. LT: Like, do you realize how much I’ve been hurt? Like, no, I’m just guarded, you know, and we can call it so many other things, or I’m cynical, or I’m skeptical of other people, or whatever.

11:31 - But in the deepest parts of our heart, we know that there’s some bitterness, just kind of eroding away the best of who we are.

11:43 - And so, I want to say to you, we all have bitterness in our heart.

11:49 - This isn’t me trying to identify some group of people, they’re like, ooh, they’re so cold and bitter.

11:55 - You know, bitterness doesn’t often visit the person with a cold, hard, heart.

12:01 - Bitterness comes to that person who has dared to love deep.

12:05 - So, they got hurt really deeply. When they threw their arms open wide, and then either got betrayed or wounded or rejected or shut down, or ignored, or just hurt in some way.

12:24 - And so, I know we’re going to get into this in future chapters, but I just want to say right from the beginning, it’s okay to admit that you have some unforgiveness, or some bitterness, or some resentment, or some grudges, whatever you want to phrase it like, it’s okay.

12:44 - You know, and God isn’t mad at you. He’s not angry at you.

12:47 - He doesn’t think you’re a horrible person because of this.

12:50 - He loves you, and He wants to tend to your hurting heart.

12:55 - And so, it was so important at the beginning of the book for me to reassure people, like bitterness is not an indication of a limitation that you have to love people, it actually indicates the exact opposite.

13:07 - And if you’re struggling with unforgiveness, I would say it’s probably because you have great capacity to love people, but you’ve also been hurt.

13:16 - And so, let’s deal with that hurt, so that it doesn’t become a liability or a limitation in your future relationships.

13:23 - MT: Because you definitely can. You can get bitter, you list a whole, a lot of things that can happen as a result, like getting cynical.

13:31 - And you can also just wear a mask and pretend like it didn’t happen, but it’s not going to make it go away.

13:35 - LT: That’s right. And why did I know how to write that list? MT: Because you experienced a lot of it? LT: Because I experienced it right.

13:43 - So, you know, it’s not an academic study of bitterness and the psychology behind resentment.

13:50 - It’s not that. It is me sitting in front of my Bible weeping, because I know what it feels like to have all this hurt inside of me and not know how to take those steps toward healing.

14:02 - MT: Right. Well, you guys, each week, we’re going to be digging into a different aspect of forgiveness, hearing more about your story, but also you are invited into the story, as well.

14:15 - And so, we hope as you go through this Online Bible Study, you will comment to us in our comment sections on social media as well as on the Blog.

14:23 - We really want to hear from you. We want to pray for you.

14:26 - And so, its time pick up your books right now.

14:29 - We’re going to be going through the Introduction, Chapters One and Chapter two.

14:33 - And we are really excited Lysa to start studying this book.

14:38 - I think so sorry for anyone who felt the need to pick up this book because we do know that you’ve experienced pain and hurt and you’re wondering maybe what to do next, but so thankful that you have written this book to share with us and so that we can learn and grow from it.

14:55 - LT: Thank you. MT: And you guys it is filled with God’s Word that is the whole foundation of everything that we do here at Proverbs 31 Ministries.

15:02 - Because we believe God’s Word is the truth.

15:03 - LT: That’s right. MT: You know what I’m about to say.

15:06 - LT: That’s right, Both: Because when you know the truth and live the truth, it changes everything.

15:09 - MT: Bye you guys. - 1 - 00Transcribed by https://otter. ai.