Taylor Talks with Maiko Kikuchi and Spencer Lott at HERE on Tuesday 1 June 2021

00:13 - My name is Taylor Mac. I’m interviewing HARP artists in a series for HowlRound so then we can all get to know them and the amazing projects that they’re doing.

00:24 - If you don’t know, HARP is a program, it’s a residency artist program at HERE Arts Center.

00:29 - They give you multiple years to work on a project.

00:32 - It’s artist driven so you get to kind of decide what you need.

00:39 - And sometimes they produce your projects, sometimes they co-produce.

00:43 - Often it’s the artist can say, “I wanna work on it for four years.

00:50 - I wanna work on it for one year. I wanna work on it for many, many, many years. “ So it’s all just kind of how you wanna do it.

00:56 - There’s usually a lot of hybrid and, hybrid type of work.

01:01 - So combining music and theater and puppetry and dance and video, and all of that kind of is often gets squished into the work.

01:12 - And why don’t you guys introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about your projects? Yeah, ‘cause I didn’t really know either one of you but I’m excited to get to know you.

01:25 - Do you wanna start, Spencer? Go for it, Maiko.

01:28 - Okay. I’m Maiko, Maiko Kikuchi.

01:33 - So I started my theater career based on visual arts.

01:40 - So, like 2013 I start like first puppet show.

01:45 - And, you know, since then I just keep making my own puppetry works extended from my visual artworks.

01:59 - And then, we met, I met Spencer through the LaMaMas.

02:05 - Like I think that there was like a puppet slum.

02:08 - And then we really liked each other as a piece and then we become friends and he asked me to– That’s the best way.

02:17 - I’m sorry to interrupt but it’s way to (indistinct) like audition or (indistinct).

02:24 - And the best possible way to find people is just the hangout in various festivals and watch their work and fall in love, right? (laughs) Yeah, I agree.

02:33 - Yeah. (indistinct) puppets. That’s the best.

02:36 - Yeah, that’s. Yeah. So, and then he asked me to collaborate and then apply for this HERE at the residency 2017? I think.

02:49 - Aha. Yeah. And then he brought up the ideas and that is the actual Japanese and America’s World War II history, which I didn’t know actually at the time.

03:02 - And I was so interested then and then we decide to collaborate and apply for the HERE.

03:08 - So we got in and we’ve been making for over three years.

03:16 - For three years. Mm-hmm. And then now aiming to a premier our piece more like leaning to the digital form, but at the same time, having the live audience if it possible.

03:32 - Yeah. This fall. This September, November.

03:37 - Yeah, like November, I think. November. (laughs) Wow, yeah.

03:40 - So that’s we are at now. Aha. And is that a usual amount of time for you to work on a piece? Or do you tend to take that much time or is longer or less or is it? We thought like, it’s actually we were premiering our piece like this past December, but then like right before we, you know, getting in more process to like make everything together, then like the (indistinct).

04:16 - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s extended.

04:19 - But I imagine you’ve had a lot of workshops in that period.

04:22 - Is that true? Yeah. Yes. Work in progress shows and yeah.

04:26 - Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Spencer, why don’t you tell us a little bit about you? Yeah, yeah.

04:33 - I’m a puppet artist. I design and build and perform and direct and write and kind of the puppetry is the through line for lots of different kind of artistic careers.

04:47 - I create my own work independently. My kind of day job is in film and television puppetry but then my kind of passion is theater.

04:58 - And like Maiko said, I felt we saw each other’s work and fell in love with, I fell in love with Maiko’s work.

05:03 - It’s so visually dynamic and interesting and unique.

05:08 - So then, you know, like you said today, like when you’re at a festival, you see something and you’re like, “Oh, how can I get in the room with that person? How can I get to work with that person?” And so I heard a Radiolab story about these paper balloons coming from Japan and inspiration struck.

05:25 - And I was like, “Oh, this might be the perfect excuse to get to call up Maiko and say, ‘Hey, do you wanna jam on this? Do you wanna see what we could make together?’” And the piece is called 9,000 balloons? Is that what it’s called? 9,000 paper balloons, yeah.

05:42 - Paper balloons. And so talk a little bit about it.

05:45 - It has to do with World War II, internment camps, like Japanese ghost stories. (laughs) All of that.

05:53 - (laughs) All of that. So it’s actual history, but the almost (indistinct) out.

06:00 - So that’s why I didn’t know that details (indistinct).

06:04 - But the story is, the history is about like, Japan’s made 9,000 paper balloons.

06:13 - So balloons made by the paper, but it’s very like, like (indistinct) balloons that (indistinct) over seas, like over the Pacific Ocean.

06:27 - So it’s a balloon that can travel all the way across the Pacific ocean? Yeah.

06:31 - Exactly. Like, by jet streams. Oh, so there wasn’t any navigation.

06:38 - They were just, they send them out and they hope that the wind takes them there.

06:41 - Right. Yeah. All right. So Japan, the scientists, like military all like figuring out how to make the weapon.

06:50 - And then balloon the has the bomb attaching to it.

06:55 - All right. (laughs) Yeah, of course.

06:57 - No it’s not just a balloon. So they put 9,000 bombs in the air hoping the jet stream would take them to the US? (laughs) Mm-hmm.

07:05 - Is it ridiculous? That’s exactly it.

07:09 - Japan was the first country to understand the jet stream.

07:12 - So they knew they had measurements that there was this fast current moving (indistinct) and they thought it might distribute over North America, over United States.

07:21 - And they were running out of materials. They didn’t have a jet that could get across the ocean.

07:25 - They didn’t have a missile that could get across the ocean.

07:28 - And so this was one of of the secret weapons they developed.

07:32 - And it worked. These balloons, hundreds and hundreds of these balloons made it across the Pacific ocean and then landed all over North America.

07:44 - There’s one balloon as far East as Michigan, Kansas, Iowa, Oregon, Arizona, you name it.

07:51 - There were hundreds and hundreds of them that– And they blew up when they landed? Is that the idea? Yeah, the idea was that it would, as the, you know, the balloon lost its air, it was full of hydrogen, it would fall and as soon as they would touch it with detonate.

08:10 - It was ultimately a failure but their hope was that they would start forest fires and that really, it was an act of terror, right? The idea that would Americans look up and there were silent bombs dropping from the sky.

08:23 - And so that’s what Maiko talks about, the blackout.

08:25 - There was a military and a press blackout so that the American public didn’t panic was the idea.

08:31 - And then in act three, we talk about some of the casualties.

08:34 - There was one family in Oregon that discovered the shrapnel, discovered a live bomb on a picnic and it detonated and killed these children.

08:44 - And so it’s part of the narrative that we’re weaving into the show.

08:48 - So it was blacked out from the American perspective but wasn’t blacked out from the Japanese history? In Japan too.

08:54 - I mean. Yeah. Because the Americans were so tight-lipped about it, then the Japanese weren’t sure if it was successful or not.

09:03 - They had no way to track it. So ultimately they gave…

09:05 - Even though they were reaching America, they ended up giving up the effort.

09:12 - It seems it’s so both poetic and terrible.

09:16 - It has all these things that we were drawn to when we were looking at this.

09:19 - Yeah. And how do the internment camps work into into the piece? So it’s actually like not including the detail of the internment camps.

09:31 - Oh, okay. Is that an old idea? I read something.

09:34 - I read (indistinct) (laughs). This is what happened.

09:36 - We were thinking about it. Ideas when we apply and then we totally change.

09:40 - (Maiko laughs) (Taylor laughs) But we were kind of thinking about including the more detail about the interment camp at the beginning of the beginning stage of this piece.

09:54 - So our piece, like, we all like assure the (indistinct) stayed there, but like our piece it’s kind of like shifting from some sort of like the story we made up to a more real, like more involving each family’s history.

10:17 - So, yeah. And then, so like, my grandfather also like, fought in World War II and then Spencer’s grandfather too.

10:27 - Oh, well. And so like, there are, you know, like essentially they’re enemies, even though they had never met.

10:38 - But then, their grandchildren become friends through puppetry and then making the piece together.

10:49 - Through the wonder of puppetry. World peace through puppetry, right? Yeah. (Taylor laughs) (Maiko laughs) So that’s a kind of like become more important theme for us.

11:00 - So that’s why we are not, our family history is like not really (indistinct) to the internment camp.

11:09 - Yeah. So that’s why it’s kinda like a little fading.

11:13 - Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we are using, from that time period, we are incorporating a lot of propaganda both from the Japanese side and from the United States side which kind of fills in.

11:23 - Maiko is this incredible collage artist. And so we’re using these kind of really kind of bombastic intense propaganda images to kind of show this sense of the other things that were going on racially during this time period.

11:39 - And how does juxtaposition work into this? Because, you know, balloons are so whimsical and beautiful and magical, and yet they’re delivering this violence or this desire for violence.

11:52 - And so how are you working with juxtaposition with your piece or is it just naturally there? I mean, that’s been the question, right? As we’ve explored shadows and all different, like, types of puppetry, that’s been the ultimate crux.

12:07 - Is what is this intersection? And we brought on a really talented director a couple of years ago.

12:15 - Ayo Ogawa, who did Suicide Forest and a number of number of great shows.

12:18 - And we kind of circled around. We’ve kind of landed on this question.

12:23 - How do we collapse the distance between us? And it felt like a broad enough question that it could approach that juxtaposition.

12:32 - And then it also fits with the kind of artwork that we’re drawn to.

12:35 - We’re kind of taking the 3D and collapsing it into 2D.

12:38 - We’re collapsing the distance between our grandfathers, between two nations, between Maiko and I.

12:44 - So, that juxtaposition has become this kind of central question of collapsing the distance.

12:50 - And I imagine anticipation too. You know, you send a balloon off and will it work? And that time that you’re waiting for it to either arrive or. (laughs) So I mean, did the Americans know that this was all coming? I mean, was there, I don’t know, spy knowledge that this had been launched or they just know about it when it was arriving? That’s exactly right.

13:21 - So there was a series of kind of unique weird occurrences where somebody would get this giant scrap of paper in their farm or they would see something floating by that they thought were a UFO and they couldn’t identify it.

13:35 - And they finally, in the military, the balloons were unmarked.

13:38 - So they weren’t sure if it was a weapon or if it was, you know, a weather experiment or something.

13:42 - And they finally found out that it was a weapon and it was from Japan.

13:46 - So on the balloon bomb, on this ring of that carried the bombs, there are all these sandbags that would release at timed places so that the balloon could stay in the jet stream as the temperature went up and down.

13:57 - So (indistinct) sandbags– Really? Dropped.

14:00 - I know it’s crazy. It’s amazing. It’s amazing like (indistinct).

14:03 - (indistinct) vicious and (indistinct). And so they looked in the sandbags and they discovered that the sand in the sand bag was only found on one specific beach in Japan.

14:13 - And so they (indistinct) sand back back and they were like, “Oh, this must be a weapon of war. ” And at the time they weren’t sure if they were gonna carry chemical weapons or if there was gonna be other payloads coming along.

14:25 - So, I mean, it’s straight out of science fiction.

14:28 - Like this floating kind of death, yeah.

14:32 - And were the balloons all manufactured? I mean, as designers, are you able to make as many different kinds of balloons as you want or are they all, are they uniformed? (laughs) And is that part of it? Or are you even showing the balloons? I don’t know. (laughs) So. Maiko (indistinct).

14:52 - Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the balloon is like they try testing out or like what’s the best way to make the balloons.

15:01 - And then like, there are like some, the certain process, like how to make the balloons.

15:09 - Like they are bearing a lot of Japanese paper and gluing with like, what is? What kind of glue? It’s a paste.

15:22 - Like (indistinct) paste. Yes. So when it’s dry, it’s makes like really hard.

15:31 - So like, like there is like the prototype of the balloon.

15:37 - And then like, they made like transform the school in Japan into the factories.

15:47 - And then so many Japanese (indistinct) the student they’re like making the paper balloons.

15:57 - So that’s like– But I imagine. Like this is in my fantasy version of it all.

16:02 - Yeah. “Oh, arts and crafts. We get to make all these balloons, right?” They don’t know what it’s for but they’re just like, “We’re making lots of balloons and everyone gets to be different. ” Or are they like, “No, the balloon has to be exactly like this and here, here. ” You know.

16:16 - Or, I mean, in the imagery I’m sure there’s some photos of these balloons, right? Yeah. Yeah.

16:21 - There’s like… It’s huge from like.

16:25 - It’s really, like, I… It’s like kind of I can’t believe that big balloon.

16:32 - it looks really perfect, like, you know, a sphere balloon.

16:36 - It’s like made by like people’s hand. Yeah, so that was.

16:41 - And then, yeah, as same as the Oregon’s family that kids got killed by balloon, in Japan, we are focused on like the guard student who is making balloon.

16:57 - Say like, like, I like when we watched the documentary, like some of them knows what they are making and some of them like really ambiguous what they’re making.

17:09 - Like, they told them, “It’s a secret weapon.

17:12 - Don’t tell anybody. “ But some of them like knows like this is a special weapon.

17:17 - So like, they’re very proud of themselves to work for like Japan, like the work for the emperor.

17:25 - So there are so many complicated, like feelings, in the teenage guards, so that’s we’re kind of imagine and then making the, you know, one of the scene of the this show.

17:42 - And then the theatricality, Taylor. Like what you mentioned is that’s been part of the fun and the challenge is figuring out, how do we fill the space? How do we fill 9,000 balloons? How many balloons do we have to see for us to believe it’s 9,000? Are they, can we get away with flat paper? Do they need to be spherical? You know, like all of these questions.

18:03 - we’ve blown up thousands of, you know, like latex balloons and filled the room.

18:09 - We’ve gotten some giant weather balloons and played with those.

18:13 - The versions of balloons right now that we’re experimenting with are light up.

18:20 - Kind of, we’ve added this kind of light glow from the inside, almost like a lantern.

18:25 - But it’s been a it’s been a really fun design challenge to figure out how much do we need to show? How much can we get away with? And now that we’re going virtual, there’s gonna be entire scenes that we’re gonna be able to shoot from the balloons point of view.

18:37 - Bird’s eye view looking down. So it’s been a fun challenge.

18:43 - Wow. So you’re making the, you’re making this show for a virtual audience, but then also for a live audience in November? Is that the? Yeah.

18:54 - So the hope is we’ll be performing it live.

18:56 - We’ll both be in the space, performing it live there at HERE.

19:01 - And it’ll go out to a virtual audience but then we’ll also have a small group of people or at least this is the plan right now, right? If it can be seen (indistinct).

19:08 - Is to have kind of VIP behind the scenes seating there live.

19:13 - So people can see how we’re doing everything with all the different puppets setups, all of the different camera setups, it’ll all be mixed and engineered they’re live on site.

19:23 - So that that’ll get, it’s kinda like a behind the scenes experience.

19:26 - Oh, it’s so exciting. Yeah. And so I know that a lot of the black and white…

19:32 - Well, this is what you said in the description, that black and white photography it was inspired, some of the aesthetic of this and also Japanese wood prints.

19:46 - And so I’m just wondering a little, some of the imagery that I’ve seen that has been kind of used black and white imagery.

19:56 - And I’m wondering what is the difference between black and white on a stage in a live performance as opposed to in a photograph and how do you transfer that? And then when you’re making a virtual show, of course, then it becomes maybe easier but maybe harder because it’s a live performance.

20:18 - So those are all technical, weird things that I’m curious about.

20:24 - That’s a great question. I mean, I think we were excited initially about first of all, that kind of black and white sets you in a specific time period, right? Or it gives the audience cues to maybe where this story’s taking place, going back to that juxtaposition of these two kind of, this black and white, this color scheme, this like floating beautiful white object and then the black death that it’s carrying.

20:52 - You know, it felt like black and white was an opportunity to lean into all of these juxtapositions.

20:58 - Our grandfathers being enemies, us being friends.

21:01 - So those kinds of things. But then, I’d say now, Maiko, I feel like it’s growing so much due to Maiko’s design and her sensibility.

21:11 - I feel like we’re definitely like kind of fleshing out the world in a, especially when one thing we’ve been considering is what does Japan feel like and what is America feel like? So as our balloon, we traveled the journey of, you know, like if one balloon.

21:24 - And so, our storytelling in Japan feels very compact, and specific and tight and that’s based on Maiko’s experience and our director, Ayo’s experience.

21:36 - And then as the balloon crosses over the Pacific ocean, you know, everything opens up visually and gets much wider and broader.

21:44 - And then, the United States, there’s even more distance between.

21:49 - We’re kind of leaning into like the Americana, the planes, that kind of space that you could see if you were a balloon traveling.

21:56 - So, I mean, as puppeteers, I feel like the coloring of the world is a huge opportunity for us.

22:04 - But then to the virtual aspect, we’re still figuring it out.

22:07 - It’s gonna be really interesting to see like how what we’ve built already will translate to camera and where we’re gonna need to boost those things or take things away.

22:16 - Yeah. Yeah. (Taylor laughs) So.

22:21 - And how are you working? Maiko, how are you? Do you make at home? Do you…

22:27 - You just build that at home? Or so you don’t have a studio but that (indistinct).

22:31 - I do have a studio. So I’m working in my studio and at home and like, same time, but for this project, it’s because I’m in New York and Spencer in Kansas.

22:43 - So we (indistinct) have that distance. And so the things we have been doing is like making the storyboards or animation version of the storyboards, or we even make the mockup, like that toy theater, or the toy theater, like this tiny like model of the toy theater.

23:09 - Like, especially about the guards of students scene.

23:12 - And then we just like meeting in the Zoom.

23:16 - And then, “So here I made an imagine like how the show would be, what do you think?” That kind of things, like we’ve been doing.

23:24 - Yeah. And it’s been really hard, you know, it’s been incredibly difficult.

23:28 - We had all this momentum, we did this great live in-person workshop at the Henson Carriage House space in March, like days before, you know, everything shut down.

23:37 - And so we had all this momentum going and now we’ve had to, you know, had to reaccess everything.

23:44 - Meditate for an entire year. (laughs) I know.

23:48 - Exactly. But I imagined that working with a lot of paper, right? You’re working with a lot of paper.

23:55 - And my experience working with paper is that there’s means you have to constantly be building, even as you’re performing, even as you’re rehearsing, you’re just rebuilding, rebuilding, rebuilding.

24:07 - Is that true or are the structures that you’re working with solid enough that you can reuse the same thing over and over? So I would say it’s kind of a harder to like (indistinct) reuse.

24:26 - Like we made… So like, it’s kind of based on my collage works.

24:32 - So it looks like a two dimensional and they’re using the cardboard stuff (indistinct).

24:37 - But at the same time, we were thinking how to make the 2D collage art works in this 3D, you know, this space.

24:50 - So that’s, so we need like certain plan and like it looks 2D, but like also it’s like the needed to like, make it like the structure.

25:06 - So it’s kind of back and forth. Yeah.

25:11 - We try to be, you know, because as a puppeteer you can spend all your time building things and neglect other parts of your process.

25:20 - So we’ve been trying to be super specific and really do detailed storyboards so we know exactly what we do need to build and what we don’t.

25:29 - Yeah. With the knowledge that then once we get in the space, we’ll discover things and things will get scrapped or combined.

25:37 - But yeah, one thing we’re excited about in the virtual space is that we only have to fill the screen, right? Working in HERE, even though HERE’s this small intimate space, we love playing with scale.

25:51 - And so we were building these giant cardboard heads and giant cardboard hands, and all these things that, you know, take up storage and transportation and like all the things that (indistinct) practical make as a theater maker drive you crazy.

26:03 - And so we are excited to scale down for virtual space, but still be able to push into the frame.

26:11 - We’ll hope to get the feeling of that, the flight and the expansiveness.

26:15 - So, yeah. It’s (indistinct) process.

26:19 - And kind of keeping with the story-boarding.

26:25 - Is the Japanese ghost story still part of this? Is that kind of what you’re doing telling a ghost story to some degree? So the ghost story.

26:39 - I don’t think we’re like using the ghost story.

26:45 - We’ve kind of moved away from that now. You’ve moved away, yeah. Yeah.

26:48 - (Maiko laughs) (Taylor laughs) I just love that ‘cause it’s the thing I hate most about writing a grant or an application is, you know, you write the description before you’ve made it.

26:59 - And then like people bring it up for the rest of your life with the project.

27:03 - You’re like, “Okay. Well look. ” (laughs) “It was 10 years ago when I wrote that (indistinct). ” But it’s interesting to hear, you know, how a piece transforms.

27:17 - (indistinct) can we watch a little sample? Can we see? Sure.

27:20 - Sure. Something? Okay, yeah. All right.

27:23 - So, we have like– Yeah, while you set it up, tell us what this exactly was, what stage it was filmed in.

27:33 - So, so far we had like three work in progress, or four work progress show.

27:41 - The first Culture Mart, and then a little experimental work in progress at the HERE’s (indistinct) downstairs theaters.

27:52 - And then we had a short work in progress at the Dixon Place.

27:57 - And then we had like a second Culture Mart 2019.

28:03 - So, we have like four different work in progress and we are trying like different approach for each work in progress to figuring out what we need and then how to develop the first one.

28:19 - So you will see the differences, even though we’re like based on the same story.

28:26 - And then like at the end, like just a little clip for the tiny mockup the guards’ story we are making during the pandemic.

28:38 - So. Okay. Okay. Okay. (indistinct), share my screen.

28:47 - All right. So here it is. (Taylor laughs) (phone rings) (phone beeps) Hello? This must be Spencer.

29:10 - Hi, Maiko. (man laughs) (metal bangs) (metal bangs) (wind howls) (metal screeches) (metal screeches) (scary music) MAN: Several branches of the Japanese military also (indistinct) where they brainstorm ways to attack the United States.

30:04 - One scientist, a meteorologist, stands at the head of a long (indistinct).

30:11 - (phone rings) Hi, Maiko. Hi, Spencer.

30:16 - Where are you? I’m waiting for you.

30:18 - We have a show tonight at the Dixon Place. Tonight, at the Dixon Place? I thought it wasn’t until the 18th.

30:24 - What? Tell them the history. I can through the prologue.

30:27 - Okay, are you ready? I’m just so sorry, and it’s gonna be great.

30:30 - (indistinct) (upbeat music) (Taylor laughs) (upbeat music) (drums bang) (gentle music) (drums bang) (indistinct) (audience laughs) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (drums bang) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (muffled gentle music) (muffled gentle music) (gentle music) (gentle music) (gentle music) (boots thumping) (upbeat anthemic music) (upbeat anthemic music) So that’s it.

(laughs) It’s extraordinary. (laughs) And what I love about it.

33:36 - I’ve never seen a work sample like that, where you show the process and various videos.

33:41 - It really gives people a sense of how it takes to make something and how you’ve experiment together.

33:48 - It’s a great work sample. Oh, thank you.

33:50 - And beautiful imagery, especially at the end there with where you guys are right now.

33:58 - Oh, thank you. I can’t wait to see it.

34:01 - It’s so fun to see just the, you know, the ideas that stick, right? Over the course of four years, like the cardboard phone.

34:08 - And there’s a few kind of like tent poles that we found like, “Oh yeah, no matter what, we’ll have, you know, a version of this, this and this in there. ” So it’s fun to look back and see how much it’s grown.

34:19 - And are either of your grandfather’s still alive, or? My grandfather passed away, what, almost seven years ago? Yeah, but the thing is, my solo performance is always, I wearing my grandfather’s face. (laughs) And– So sweet.

34:42 - So It’s not because he passed away.

34:44 - Like I start making my puppetry show wearing his face like, the two years before he passed away.

34:55 - And then I even asked him if I can use his face and he said, “No. ” (laughs) But I use it.

35:02 - But you did it anyway. That’s an artist for you.

35:06 - Yeah, he’s very, difficult, stubborn Japanese grandfather.

35:10 - He hates America so much. He was so disappointed I come to US, and.

35:18 - But he care about me a lot and then that he’s very happy to hear, like, I have a lot of friends here.

35:25 - But he never want to visit me in US. So, he’s how he like, have the trauma for America is that much.

35:37 - And also Spencer’s grandfather is still, like, he’s 92? Yeah, 96.

35:43 - 96? Wow. Oh my God. Oh. He’s still, he’s doing great, lives in Iowa.

35:49 - And I’ve actually interviewed him and recorded our conversations about the kind of the time period.

35:55 - And we had conversations about the Japanese internment and I’m hoping to be able to include more and more of his story in it.

36:06 - He wrote this great biography just for our family of his stories, enlisting.

36:11 - He enlisted just a few months after Pearl Harbor.

36:14 - And so he’s got his biography of all these things that happened.

36:20 - So we’ve been weaving those into the narrative as well.

36:23 - And then part of our show, part of this collapsing of distance, we imagine what if, what if Oshin, Maiko’s grandpa we’re able to meet Papa Jim, you know, what would happen then? So we’ve had fun.

36:39 - It’s been fun to kind of smash these two worlds together and to imagine that they would meet in some way.

36:48 - Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for talking to us.

36:53 - It’s such a wonderful project and so do you actually have dates? Do you know exactly when it’s going up? Hopefully when this goes up, maybe in the chat or something we can put up the actual dates.

37:05 - I think November. I think we’re pretty sure it can happen in November, there at HERE and then virtually.

37:11 - Okay. All right. Yeah, hopefully people can check back in.

37:15 - Awesome. (Taylor laughs) All right.

37:17 - Thank you so much. Thanks so much. We had a good (indistinct).

37:19 - I can’t wait to hang out in person. (laughs) Yes.

37:22 - Sounds great. Thank you. Bye. Thank you.

37:26 - ♪ It’s all I want ♪.