Feminine for a Gentler Economy | HRH Princess Noor of Jordan & Harjinder Kaur Talwar with Sadhguru

Sadhguru, as women leaders, it is crucial for us to understand our role in the post-Covid era, and this does include demon… demonstrating extremely complex qualities such as empathy, sympathy and compassion.

00:56 - On behalf of IWEC, I and princess Noor will need your guidance  to understand the key to be more effective as women business leaders. And now let me invite Noor for the interaction further; Noor, over to you. Sadhguru: Namaskaram. Noor: Thank you so much, Harjinder for your words.

01:15 - Sadhguru, I’m a lifetime student of your teachings, and it’s such an honor to connect with you today.

01:24 - Sadhguru: Wonderful to have you here and be talking to you. Wonderful. (Laughs) Noor: It’s lovely. This is the advantage of the virtual world. Sadhguru: Yes, (Laughs) isn’t it? (Both laugh) Noor: I would like to thank my fellow IWEC members and participants.

01:40 - This is the third year I’m a chairwoman, and honestly, I’m in awe of the growth and learning opportunities that are shared with us.

01:49 - In preparation for our meeting today, we have heard that you’ve been up to many, many adventures.

01:57 - That you’re currently in the US, and you’re traveling extensively on your bike (Sadhguru laughs), and engaging with so many people.

02:07 - And it’s such a refreshing image to visualize such playfulness, yet bringing such deep work of conscious growth and wisdom. Umm, could you just give us a little insight on what this experience has been like for you so far? Sadhguru: Oh, this motorcycle journey? Okay. (Laughs) I wouldn’t think that you would be interested in motorcycles. (Laughs) Noor: As a fellow biker…

02:39 - Sadhguru: Oh, is that so? Noor: Yes, it is definitely. (Both laugh)  Okay. This was essentially billed as exploring spiritual America.

02:53 - So one, there were many aspects to this, one important thing is to… we wanted to visit all those sites and Native American nations.

03:03 - When I say Native Americans, for most people in the world, maybe few Americans know the details, but for most people in the world, they know only what they have seen in the Wild West movies –  of a bunch of men screaming and hollering and shooting whoever comes their way kind of imagery.

03:23 - But there used to be over five hundred nations, Native American nations in North America. And even today they are maintaining their distinct identities.

03:32 - They have their own language; they have their own culture; they have their own individual spiritual processes. So, I thought, this must come forth because about eighteen years ago, I had a very profound and very painful experience with one of the Native American spirits.

03:49 - I was just walking in the forest, and I saw, ahh you know, a kind of a frozen being.

03:57 - And at that time, I wrote this poem called America; I will send it to you. (Laughs) And after that, I’ve been looking them up. I did…

04:07 - Even I did not know there were so many nations, in… even in our minds…

04:11 - Well we had heard name… heard names like Cherokee, Apache, Comanche, like this in the movies.

04:17 - But beyond that, even I did not know, so I started exploring this.

04:22 - And I’ve been wanting to do this for some time,  but it took the virus to break my schedule so that I could (Laughs) go on this trip. So it has been thirty-six days; we just got back day before yesterday.

04:36 - Thirty-six days, we’ve been on the road. We did 9477 miles on the motorcycle, (Laughs) Noor: It’s fascinating.

04:46 - covered various nations, about eighteen states through United States. And it’s been absolutely spectacular, and we are… the… all the, you know, like almost every day sixteen, eighteen hours the video cameras have been on.

05:00 - So, to assimilate all this and to put this out, it may take two to three months for us.

05:07 - But the important thing is for people to know that these were well-evolved cultures.

05:13 - There are places like Cahokia where a thousand years ago, 40,000 people lived in one city.

05:20 - Just to give you a perspective, at that time in London, there were only 15,000 people.

05:26 - They were 40,000 people. 40,000 people living in a city means there is an organization; there is an administration; there is a whole process.

05:35 - Otherwise, you cannot, so many people cannot live in one place.

05:39 - So, similarly there are very powerful spiritual spaces, and the level of attention they gave to their inner well-being, they’ve… what they call as their spirit, rather than their physical life, is something that modern societies have to emulate, because the only way that we can make this into a sustainable world for all of us is that our interests are more beyond physical nature; that is the only way we can do it.

06:07 - If it becomes all physical, we’re just ripping the planet apart.

06:11 - And also coming to that aspect… See right now, for most people, educated people at least, ecology means it’s a textbook, it’s an abstract science somewhere.

06:22 - These are the people for whom ecology lived in their hearts. This’s what needs to happen for this generation and the next generation.

06:30 - These people did not live on the land; they are the land.

06:34 - And you and me… you and me are also land, all right? This body is just soil, but most people don’t get it till you bury them. Ahhh but these are people who lived with this awareness. I think, this is most relevant for today’s life. So, in many ways we’re trying to put out what the different nations or the different tribes, you know, like, believed in and how they lived. But one common ethos is their fondness for earth, because this is an earthy culture.

This is not a heaven-bound culture; this is about living life here, fully.

07:10 - This is not about going somewhere else and living better. So, I think it’s most relevant for today’s world; it is just the presentation of how it is presented.

07:20 - People may not be able to digest as to how they presented.

07:23 - So, I am seeing how it could be presented in modern language, in modern context.

07:28 - But, fundamentally, it’s very relevant for our generations and the generations to come, actually.

07:34 - So, it’s been a spectacular ride in terms of sights, and what we have experienced in last thirty-six days is absolutely incredible, and as a biker, you know. (Laughs) Noor: It is definitely a wonderful experience and highlighting what you’ve just mentioned and echoing your messaging, it is…

07:57 - I believe the collective experience of the virus that has really stopped and invited people to reflect on the importance of reconnecting with, with earth.

08:12 - And in terms of being able to embody qualities such as resilience on such hard times and challenging times, what could you share in terms of practical steps that we can be able to experience right now, once we finish our conversation together, you know, how is it that we could very simplistically just have that little step towards getting a bit closer?  Sadhguru: See, because people have very little experience of living on this earth – the moment these four walls came around us, we have no experience of life.

08:59 - We are living in a cell of our own, where temperature is controlled at whatever temperature we want, and we have no seasons; we have no flowers blossoming; we don’t have any experience of life.

09:11 - There is no sunlight; there’s no moonlight; everything is, you know, LED or whatever it is. So, I am saying, living indoors is one of the main reasons why people have forgotten what is nature.

09:25 - One significant step that everybody must do is instead of… I’m not against all these things, but I’m just saying because today, you know, one of the most visited holiday places in the country…

09:39 - in this country, in United States is Vegas.

09:42 - Las Vegas is the most visited one; next comes Florida.

09:46 - Well, there is Dubai. There is Mumbai. There is these kind of things. This is where people are taking their children.

09:53 - Noor: Yes. Sadhguru: I would say every week at least one day, if you go out and sleep under the stars, if you go out and make them experience life the way it is, understanding that every other creature who crawls and walks and slides around on this planet have a significant role to play in the making of this earth…

10:13 - Why I’m saying this is, in the last fifty years, seventy percent of the vertebrate life has been exterminated, seventy percent!  And they are saying, by the end of this century, eighty percent of the insect population could go.

10:28 - If insect population goes, we cannot grow anything – our lives will go.

10:33 - Mass deaths of human beings will happen, if all the insects die. Every day we are slaughtering over two hundred million animals, okay? We don’t need that much for food. We’re just slaughtering them because everything is done in excess, because we have not… we are not seeing other life as life. We are… We are thinking only if it’s in the human form, it’s life; rest is not life, and they have no right to live.

11:00 - Unfortunately, such lessons have been taught to people in certain cultures that every other life is here to serve you. Please, just go and observe an ant or a bee or any other creature on the planet; they have a complete life of their own. They have no interest in serving you.

11:20 - Well, they live in such a way that they are eco-friendly, and it may serve us – that’s a different matter. But they have no intention of serving us; they have a full-fledged life of their own. I’ve spent enormous amount of time in… in the jungles in India, in the… you know, in rain forests in India. Every small life has a complete life of its own, and it doesn’t think a damn about us. (Laughs) But we are thinking we are the center of the universe, which has caused too much damage.

11:50 - I think being exposed to nature… The next generation of people, if they’re little more exposed to nature, if we build homes, at least where a part of it is open, you know, open to sky; it’s very important.

12:03 - You know, like we are promoting this everywhere in India now.

12:06 - Ancie… All old designs of homes used to be like this, a part of the house used to be open to sky.

12:11 - It would rain inside. Even today in my house it rains inside. My daughter who grew up in this house always says, that is the most spectacular thing that inside the house there used to be pouring monsoon rains.

12:24 - You know, (Laughs) because people need to… children need to experience this.

12:29 - Just living in four walls is completely destroying our idea and our sensibility towards earth and other life. Noor: Thank you so much. Harjinder, I believe you’d like to step in? Harjinder: Thank you, Noor. Sadhguru, a Ducati-riding guru is a rare sight.

12:48 - Besides riding a Ducati, you also drive luxury cars, you fly choppers, you play golf, you’re football fan, you are perhaps the most stylish mystic.

12:59 - (Sadhguru laughs) We often are confused because we intertwine spirituality and minimalistic life.

13:06 - How do you define spirituality?  Sadhguru: (Laughs) Anyway, let me correct this, I don’t like luxury cars.

13:12 - I like cars or any machine that works well.

13:15 - Because a mystic means he’s a mechanic who understands the mechanics of life. Well, isn’t this true that this mechanism which we call as human mechanism is the most sophisticated, complex machine which works very smoothly, it organizes itself; it creates itself, and it maintains itself all the time, unless you do something nasty with it? (Laughs) So, I’m interested in anything that works seamlessly. Luxury cars – no, I never drew… drove any of them.

13:46 - But about these things – you know, you mentioned, motorcycle and the helicopter and this and that and golf, whatever –  well, I do many more things that people may not be aware of, (Laughs) I would like to do almost everything if I had the time.

14:03 - But the important reason why this is necessary, and why we are even putting out some of the personal aspects of my life outside is  because people’s understanding of spirituality right now is – if you eat badly, dress badly and live badly, you must be spiritual.

14:22 - So, no wonder nobody wants to be spiritual. They have… Spiritual means it happened a thousand years ago. I must tell you this. I was in Chennai, and I had to go into a conference, and normally I drive myself because (Laughs), you know, I don’t like the way most people drive. (Laughs) So, I drove into this conference, and there were some journalists, and they asked, “In ancient times, yogis used to walk. How come you drive your own car?” I said, ”In ancient times, you fool, everybody used to walk, not only yogis.

14:59 - Everybody was walking, so yogis also were walking.

15:01 - Today everybody is driving, so yogi is also driving. “ If I come walking all the way from Coimbatore to United States, you will say I’m a bloody fool, isn’t it? Hello? (Laughs) So, the problem of… especially you come from India, there has never been such an imagery.

15:19 - It is only in the calendar images now that this has happened.

15:22 - This frugalness of spiritual people has happened post-British era, not before.

15:28 - For example, the greatest spiritual teaching that you have in India or the most popular teaching that you have in India is the Bhagavad Gita.

15:36 - Look at the way Krishna is dressed, and he’s riding a whatever that brand was –  I don’t know if it was a BMW or a Ducati – you always call him Parthasarathi.

15:45 - That means he was a great driver. Hello, (Laughs) yes, isn’t it? He is… He is driving for the warrior because he’s the best driver available. Well, I’m also pretty good, so I drive. (Both laugh) Harjinder: I would like to know, Sadhguru, you just mentioned that many things which… more that you do which people don’t know. Can you just tell us what are few of those things?  Sadhguru: (Laughs) I cook, I paint, I make carpentry. I do many things like this.

(Laughs) Harjinder: Noor and I are coming soon to you to have the food which is… Sadhguru: I’m sorry?  Harjinder: I said Noor and I are coming soon, Sadhguru if you allow us come and to…

16:25 - Sadhguru: Oh, if you… if you eat my cooking, then you will get enslaved to me; don’t do that. (Laughter) You’re most welcome. (Laughter) Noor: Thank you.

16:37 - Picking up on the whole imagery or the interpretation of spirituality –  we’re so influenced by conditioning through our upbringing, through society, the labelling, the judgment. What are the steps for us to be taking or to be reflecting on? And I would primarily love to focus on the youth as well, not only on our current work, you know, not only on today. What would be the steps for us to start peeling those those layers and really heightening consciousness? Umm as you mentioned previously, obviously those four walls let’s break them – connecting more to nature.

17:30 - Umm I’m very interested in understanding better. So, how do we… how do we peel those, how do we bring awareness to… to that? You know, okay, you’re a mystic, so this is who you are, that’s how you need to live or… (Sadhguru laughs) And it happens very much with everything else in what we’ve created as human beings.

17:53 - Sadhguru: Now that you used the word peel twice, so let me hang on to that word.

17:59 - Yes, in a way, peeling is what is needed. If you want to see, you must peel your eyes.

18:06 - Very simple, If you have your eyelids down, you can’t see. Similarly, if you want to see anything, you need to peel because this is the nature of our vision.

18:16 - Unless something is opened, we can’t see it. When it comes to the individual human being, we cannot open this body.

18:24 - Because if you break it, you can’t fix it. So, what is physical, you don’t have to open. Because what is peeling in physicality is just a question of creating distance.

18:39 - See, this is a fact that you and me, as we sit here, well, I have a body, you have a body.

18:45 - This body, we were not born like this. We were born only like this, and we became like this. We became like this by the food that we consume. Yes? It is just accumulation of food or it’s just a piece of the planet.

19:04 - As I said earlier, most people don’t understand that the soil that we walk upon and the body that we carry are not different. Not different at all. It’s just a little bit of loan that we have taken from Mother Earth.

19:19 - When it’s time, we must put it back joyfully, but most people crib about that.

19:23 - They don’t want to return the loans that they’ve taken. (Laughs) Mother Earth is generous to give you what you want, but when it’s time, she collects it atom by atom.

19:33 - She won’t let you keep anything. So, having said that, what you accumulate, whatever it is, whether it’s body, money, wealth, clothes, this, that, including impressions, experiences, relationships, all this we gathered. What we gather can belong to us, but cannot be us, isn’t it? So, if we have to gather so much body and so much mind, there must be something more fundamental to this. That is unexperienced by most of the humanity today because the social focus is not there.

Right now, everybody is going about as if economy is the ultimate nature of life.

20:19 - You know, the economic figures are the ultimate nature of life.

20:23 - Economy is just glorified survival process. People used to hunt, gather and survive. Then they did agriculture and survived. Now we’re doing stock market and surviving. It doesn’t matter what we’re doing, but it is just a survival process getting more and more complex. So, we are getting so en… entangled in this complexity, right now it’s become like this, at least for the educated class in this world, the soul of humanity is economy. Nobody’s talking anything else, anywhere you go – only economy, economy, economy.

Because this whole madness of survival, the bar of survival being raised and raised and raised – endlessly is going on.

21:09 - So, here, you know, like (Laughs) there is…

21:13 - We are in United States which is supposed to be the most affluent nation in the world. Well, with affluence, what should happen? Why would a human being look for affluence? Initially it’s about choice of nourishment. If I’m… If I have money, if I have affluence, I can eat what I want.

21:33 - That’s how it starts; then it’s a choice of lifestyle.

21:37 - So the most affluent society on the planet where there’s an enormous choice of nourishment and an enormous choice of lifestyles – well, seventy percent, they say, are on prescription medication. Their healthcare bill is over three trillion dollars.

21:55 - It’s bigger than India’s economy – with 1. 4 billion people what we have, all right?  I’m saying, if you’re… if you had choice of nourishment and choice of lifestyle, you must be at the peak of your physical and mental health, isn’t it? Both physical health and mental health is becoming a serious issue.

22:15 - Simply because you have not addressed the most fundamental aspects of being human.

22:20 - Because who you are is being created from within you.

22:24 - If you don’t take charge of that, if you don’t access that, it doesn’t matter what you gather around you; everything will just mock at you. Your big buildings, your endless amount of bungalows and palaces will only mock at you. Your massive cars are mocking at you right now. Now you want to see how you want to do something different.

22:44 - But how difficult it is to do something different! I am not against any of the things that I’m mentioning.

22:50 - It’s up to you what you want to have, if only you understand it’s only an accessory to life.

22:56 - Life is throbbing within you; rest are accessories.

23:00 - How many accessories do you need? Well, it’s individual choice; I don’t want this to be my decision. You may need, let’s say, ten accessories. I may need two. This is our choice.

23:12 - It’s perfectly fine, as long as both of us are conscious what we have gathered is only accessories; this is not life. Life is something that happens within us, but that’s not even come into people’s experience. Right now, the physiological compulsions and psychological demands are being understood as life.

23:32 - What you think and feel is not your life, it’s just your psychological drama.

23:36 - You can think whatever you want. Yes? But, unfortunately, most people can’t think whatever they want. They are… They’re structured as to how to think, and all the human suffering is coming from this.

23:49 - See, there are only two kinds of sufferings: physical suffering, mental suffering.

23:53 - Is there any other suffering in a human life? Only these two.

23:57 - So the simplest thing… because you talked about peeling. The entire system of yoga, the entire spiritual process, if it is scientifically handled, is just this.

24:08 - Right now, we have what is called as Inner Engineering; the simple, the basic practice is this.

24:12 - If you sit here, your body is here, your mind is out there, what is you is little away from you.

24:20 - These two things. Once there is a space between you and your body, once there is a space between you and your mind, this is the end of suffering.

24:31 - Because these are the only two things where you suffer.

24:34 - You also suffer these things, not because body is suffering, not because mind is suffering.

24:40 - Simply because you have been given a very sophisticated mechanism, but you don’t bother to read the user’s manual.

24:48 - That’s why you’re suffering. You don’t know how to handle it.

24:51 - Human beings are suffering their own intelligence, isn’t it? Most human beings are only suffering their intelligence.

25:00 - Very few places of war zones, famines, this, that. There are unfortunate situations, which need to be fixed. But most of the human beings are suffering their own intelligence.

25:13 - So, what… The problem is evolutionary, I am saying. If you gave them the brain of an earthworm, they would all be peaceful, tch.

25:22 - They’d be very peaceful, I’m saying. So, right now, people are going about propagating peace is the ultimate goal of life. I am asking you – how do I address you, Highness? Noor: Noor. Sadhguru: Excellency? Hmm?  Noor: Noor. Noor is fine. (Both laugh) Sadhguru: Noor is fine.

25:39 - So, I’m asking you, if you are not even peaceful, can you enjoy the meal that you eat? No. Can you enjoy a handful of people around you if you’re not peaceful? Your dear ones, your children, your spouse, whoever else is around you who are most dear to you, even they become horrible when you are not peaceful, isn’t it? Noor: True.

26:06 - Sadhguru: When you are not… When you’re experiencing a certain turmoil, do you see all of them become horrible? Not that they are behaving horribly. I’m saying, in your experience, everybody becomes an irritant, isn’t it? Only when you’re peaceful, you can look at them and enjoy them.

26:23 - You can eat what you eat and you enjoy them.

26:25 - You can enjoy the space in your home or wherever you are; you can enjoy that only if you’re peaceful.

26:32 - So, I’m asking, is peace the most fundamental requirement within us or is it the ultimate goal of life that you want to do in heaven? Unfortunately, this whole thing has been turned upside down by non-practicing or, what to say, very enterprising spirituality.

26:52 - Where there is no inner experience, they just re… read two books, and then they all become spiritual teachers all over the world, and they’ve messed up human mind in such a bad way, such a bad way that now people are saying suffering is an inevitable part of human life.

27:08 - I am asking you, is it your choice right now, this moment, Noor, this moment, is it your choice to sit here joyfully or cause some misery to yourself? Is it your choice or no? Noor: Definitely.

27:22 - Sadhguru: So, it is your choice this moment means it’s your choice every moment of your life. Because your entire life happens in this moment, isn’t it? Noor: True.

27:32 - You never experience a yesterday or a tomorrow,  but people suffer what happened ten years ago, they still suffer; what may happen the day after tomorrow, they already suffer.

27:42 - This means they’re suffering human faculties; they’re not suffering life.

27:48 - A vivid sense of memory and a fantastic sense of imagination is what makes us very different from every other creature on this planet.

27:57 - The richness of human life is only because we have such a vivid sense of memory, and we have a fantastic imagination.

28:04 - But this is what ninety-nine percent of the human beings are suffering.

28:09 - They are suffering their memory and their imagination.

28:12 - Essentially, they are complaining about evolution.

28:15 - I said… I’m saying, to get us to this level of cerebral capability, it took millions of years of work, millions of years.

28:26 - To make an amoeba into such a complex life, it took millions of years of work, and now people are suffering that. How bad is that? (Laughs) Harjinder: Can I ask the question, Sadhguru? Sadhguru, you just spoke about economy.

28:44 - You touched upon the issue of peace, and here I’m asking you a question about women who can be a part of economics of the world.

28:55 - Do you think that women can really be a part of inclusive economics, which many people or we would like to talk about? And then if we are, then we try to multitask; we want to take so many roles, and that obviously brings us stress also because if we want to deliver, stress is I think a part of this, how do we manage everything? How do we balance everything? Can you give us some advice as women in business?  Sadhguru: Why are you saying stress is a part of this? (Laughs) No, no! So, essentially, you are saying some kind of suffering should be there if you… if you have to be successful. No, that’s not right because a suffering mind is not a creative mind. I know most people say that from Europe, only in deep suffering you’ll be creative.

29:46 - No, I’m telling you, if you are blissed out all the time, you will be very, very creative.

29:52 - Because unhindered exploration of your genius will happen when you are not an impediment to yourself.

30:01 - Suffering means you’re putting up impediments to your own faculties, your own intelligence, your own genius. So, do not ever understand suffering or stress or tension or whatever else as some kind of a creative process.

30:14 - Yes, it is true that right now if we smash your little finger, all right? I’m saying suffering, physical suffering. If we smash your little finger, you will run all over the place at full speed.

30:28 - If a dog is chasing you, you will run full speed. But is that the way to go? You know, in India, unfortunately, in some villages they used to have this – fortunately, these things have stopped.

30:39 - They will tie some firecrackers to the tail of a donkey, and poor animal runs like crazy, and everybody is happy how it… donkey is running faster than a horse. Is this the way to run, I’m asking? Is this the way for human being to explore our potential? We tie firecrackers to our tail and run because it’s going to burst in our face otherwise? This is not the way to do things.

31:08 - So, when we say women being part of the economic process, they’ve always been.

31:13 - It is just that today we have a twisted sense of economic process. Tell me, right from ancient times – I’m going back to the caveman’s time when people lived in caves and forests –  was she not a part of the economic process? Maybe she didn’t go hunting, but when things were brought home, she sorted out things; she made sure everything is put to best use; she made sure everybody is nourished and everything is taken care of.

31:39 - Is this not economic process? If a woman is not competent, then what is brought home will be wasted.

31:46 - Is saving a part of your banking business, I’m asking? Without savings, is there banking? Without banking, is there an economic process on the planet, I’m asking? Can economic engine be driven without banking system? Can banking system operate without people saving? Wasn’t it always the main consciousness of the woman in the house, how to save everything and put it to best use? Who said she was not a part of the economic process?  Right now, unfortunately, we have a twisted sense of economy.

We think only if you work on the fire… factory floor, you’re in the economic process. This is a very crude way of looking at life.

32:26 - I think… (Laughs) I’m not commenting about this lady, but there was an iconic picture from the World War II time.

32:34 - If it was for the war effort, I very much appreciate it, but it was used by political campaigns and various other things where an American lady is like this with her biceps showing and saying, “We can do it. ” You’ve seen that iconic picture. Because it was…

32:49 - I’m commenting about this mainly because it was used in political campaigns – presidential campaigns used this. Well, I’m saying, the significance of modern times is this, that the… our activity, and the significance of our activity has moved from human muscle to human cerebral activity because of technology and machines and things like that.

33:14 - From brawn to brain, this is the most important thing for… in the uplifting of a woman.

33:22 - Because now the man’s muscle which ran the world at one time… Anything that was needed, you needed man’s muscle. So, naturally he was the dominant force in a given society or at least we see it from outside that way.

33:35 - But it was not so even in those societies; women had equal roles to play.

33:40 - Because our movies, our stories, everything is projecting the man who goes and fights and kills somebody is the strong man.

33:49 - The woman who sits at home and nourishes and creates life and brings up ch… That same idiot who’s fighting right now was brought up by her, that is not powerful.

33:59 - This is a complete misconception of life. This is a topsy-turvy understanding of life. So, having said that, it is very important, today’s time is very, very important because the significance of man muscle has receded.

34:15 - If you have big muscles… I’m saying, if I’m a man and I have big muscles,  well, they may hire me as a security man for somebody.

34:24 - They won’t make me the boss of the place. There was a time the man with big muscle was the boss of the community, whoever had the biggest muscle.

34:33 - But unfortunately, our movies, both in Hollywood and in India, are still projecting a man with big muscles  who can beat up everybody is still the boss. This is an unfortunate caveman projection that is still going on. It’s very important that muscles are not the important force.

34:51 - Now there are machines where if you put a million men, they’re not a match for a single machine.

34:58 - So, we have created machines; technology has come, now it is a question of intelligence and competence.

35:04 - So, I don’t think if you ask me… I know a lot of women may react to this, but I’m clearly saying this; let me repeat this; I’ve said this before, but I’m clearly, clearly saying this. There is no need for women to fight for equality.

35:17 - All they have to do is… Education is available… In most nations, at least by law, they are equal.

35:23 - Socially they may not be yet, but by law there is equality. Now, all they have to do is, more and more girls should be educated, should become competent. Today it’s happening in India big time. More girls are passing out of high school than boys.

35:38 - More girls are there in… You know, I went to some technological institutes.

35:42 - Technical institutes, there are more girls than boys, not literature or commerce or something.

35:48 - In engineering schools, there are more girls.

35:51 - More girls are earning PhDs than boys are earning.

35:55 - This is all. If you do this for another fifteen, twenty years, it’ll be a level playing field.

36:00 - Instead of just creating unnecessary rancor, unnecessary resistance where from the other side also ugly things will happen, this is all that has to be done.

36:10 - Because empowerment is the way to go forward, not a fight, not showing your muscle, because even a man’s muscle is meaningless. Why is a woman’s muscle so important now?  Noor: I… I love what you just highlighted in that sense.

36:25 - Before, before coming to today’s engagements, my thirteen-year-old daughter was asking me, you know, “Could I… could I ask a question?” I’m like, ”Sure. “ (Sadhguru laughs) So, this is from her picking up on…

36:41 - Sadhguru: Okay. Noor: on this whole male-female umm she is influenced by umm given society and the narrative that has been played, and she said, “I am curious to know if there was one advice for the youth today, what would it be?“  Sadhguru: See, gender is a personal thing. Noor: Hmmm.

37:10 - I… I’m sorry, I’m putting it in a very basic way. Noor: Please.

37:15 - Sadhguru: (Laughs) What is in somebody’s pants is not my business or your business. (Noor laughs) It is… It is only relevant in a few places like bathrooms and bedrooms and somewhere.

37:26 - In rest of the places, your gender is irrelevant.

37:29 - It’s a question of your competence, what you can do, what you cannot do, what you’re capable of, what you’re not capable of.

37:35 - We need to bring the world to this place that what kind of body you have is not my business. Only in bodily relationships, it matters. Rest of the time, it’s not my business.

37:49 - For this, women also should think this way.

37:51 - But right now, it is… I don’t know, it’s a… it’s a complete, you know, (Laughs) man’s dream is being played out by the woman, you know? Ahhh because… you know, like yesterday I was… somebody…

38:07 - Because I was supposed to talk to some musician, and I said, “Okay, let me hear something,” so they played a video – I’m sorry, I’m using such words, but I’m… I’m saying because it pains me that women are being projected like this – and a musician is on stage in underpants.

38:28 - I said, “Why are musicians in underpants?” They said, ”Sadhguru, only that sells. “ I said, “What is this?” So, this is horrible exploitation of the women, and women are cooperating in this.

38:40 - I’m… She can wear what she wants; it’s not my business. But if she’s wearing that only because that’s what sells, that is not right in the society.

38:49 - It’s her choice what she wants to wear. But it’s not her choice; somebody else is determining her choice, which is not choice at all.

38:58 - So, this is important both for young boys and girls, they need to come up with this that your body is your business, all right? It is not something that everybody needs to be involved with your body on the street.

39:13 - Everybody need not be involved with your body. People need to be involved with your intelligence; people need to be involved with your competence; people need to recognize your genius.

39:23 - Everybody on the street need not be involved with your body.

39:26 - Body has its purposes, body has its beauty, body has its nature – that is in a different way. I’m not trying to say what should be the dress code.

39:36 - No! I’m saying a man should not decide a woman’s dress code, that’s all I’m saying. Right now, it looks like it’s man’s perversion, which is deciding a woman’s dress code. This needs to change if women have to be free.

39:50 - So, this is why I’m saying, as… as from man’s muscle it is moving to a cerebral nature of activity, similarly from a woman’s flesh it has to move from… to a cerebral nature of activity.

40:05 - So, right now, this may sound like an absurd thing. “No, no, this is how women are. ” No, no, this is how man has expected women to be; this is not how women are. I know enough women in my life, all around me, to clearly know that this is not how they are, but they think this is what is expected out of them. Harjinder: Is that a superwoman syndrome, Sadhguru, that you call this? Sadhguru: I’m sorry? Harjinder: Is this a superwoman syndrome that they define this as a… women just want to project themselves in a certain way? Sadhguru: No, I’m saying this is a sure way to destroy the beauty of feminine in the world, because right now you understand masculine as the ideal of success.

If you want to succeed, you have to be like a man, you have to show your muscle. This must go.

41:01 - Because this whole thing is coming from this… the…

41:05 - This is a consequence of, in one way, that economic engine drives everything in the world.

41:12 - When economy is the only thing that matters, everything is a marketplace. Everything is about… See, mar…

41:21 - In the marketplace, if I give less and take more, I’m smart, isn’t it? Hello? If I go to a marketplace and give more and take less, I’m stupid.

41:33 - But right now, you must understand in your homes, I’m sure it’s true for you also as woman…

41:39 - I’ve seen women working in so many ways – my own mother, my sisters, my aunts,  and many, many other women that I see – yea… when they are at home their whole thing is to give themselves totally, because they’re doing something that they love to do.

41:54 - They’re doing things for people that matter; that what I get is not important.

41:59 - That’s what makes their life beautiful. This should not happen just at home. This should happen in the society that everybody is trying to do their best to everybody else. This is the nature of the feminine.

42:12 - Right now, you’re saying, wherever you go, I must give less and take more – whether it is marketplace or marriage, the same thing is happening. And nobody’s happy, nobody’s living well, nobody’s…

42:24 - nobody can relax their guard. All the time everybody’s guarded against each other. Because every place is a marketplace.

42:32 - Everywhere you go, you’re seeing how you can profit.

42:35 - No, that’s not how human beings can live well. Human beings can live well, this is right now… I constantly live among volunteers who are always trying to give their best in any given situation.

42:47 - People ask me, ”Sadhgu… Sadhguru, of all the things that you do, what’s the most important thing?” I say, “People around me, the sort of people that I have gathered around me who are willing to give their lives away without any expectation, this is what is most beautiful about my life,” because that is what is most important in the world.

43:06 - Every place is a marketplace means we’re always trying to be… take advantage of somebody, isn’t it? When your mind has become a marketplace, there will be no consciousness, there will be no finer aspects of life, there will be no room for the feminine in the world – masculine will rule.

43:23 - It’s all about conquest, it’s all about exploitation.

43:26 - It’s not about, ahh, you know, it’s not about love, it’s not about inclusiveness, it’s not about involvement with life.

43:34 - Where there is no unbridled involvement with life, there, there is no life at all.

43:41 - Only with involvement, you can know life. There is simply no other way.

43:46 - Harjinder: I just would handover to Noor, before that I want to further ask you one thing more… Sadhguru: You used the word “superwoman,” I would say my mother was a superwoman. She did not earn a single rupee in her life, but she was a superwoman, she was the most respected in the family.

44:01 - Well, did she ever ask “What will I get?” Never, but she is a superwoman.

44:06 - Harjinder: We all are superwomen, Sadhguru, thank you so much (Laughter) Umm, you know now if we are a business… we’re doing business.

44:17 - Business is gender-neutral, it doesn’t recognize who is a man and who is a woman, and I totally believe in this. Now, as a woman who is into a business, it is our dharma, it is our duty to earn money so that we can give employment to many people, and we can contribute to the economy of our country.

44:37 - So, how far… how does it gel with your idea of feminism? Is it… What we are doing something right, or we should be… You know, I would like to know your opinion on this.

44:48 - Sadhguru: No, no. Just now you said business is gender-neutral.

44:52 - Then you say “We are women in business. ” No, you’re just in business, you’re not a woman.

44:58 - You’re just a businessperson like anybody else.

45:01 - Why are you a woman in business? Don’t do that, don’t take your gender to the business. You’re in business, you must conduct it in a judicious way, that’s about it.

45:11 - Harjinder: That’s how probably society looks at that, and we need to correct this.

45:15 - Thank you so much for telling this to us. Over to you, Noor.

45:18 - Noor: It’s… it… It’s so fascinating to hear all these concepts. And my question would be,  where do we start in terms of shifting such paradigms and such mental models that are so ingrained in our experience as human beings? Would it be targeting educational institutions, would it be in the home, a combination of the two? Umm, how do we manifest, how do we bring this to life other than having these deep conversations, and awakening a different perspective in humans? Sadhguru: See, if it happens within us – essentially if the transformation or change happens within us – it will naturally manifest at home, at school, at workplaces, in the society, everywhere it will naturally manifest.

46:19 - So, this is a fundamental thing that I would like to point out, but we are always trying to change the home,  we are trying to change the school, we are trying to change the workplace, we are trying to change the social situation. No! What needs to change is within us.

46:33 - If this one changes, if we are at home, we will make sure the home is different; if you are at school, we will make sure the school is different; if you are in a workplace, you will make sure the workplace is different.

46:43 - So, right now, this may look like a faraway thing, but just… just look back and see, twenty-five years ago, across the world, not just in any one place where was a…

46:58 - I mean to say in terms of work, in terms of recognition of competence, in terms of educational qualifications where was a woman twenty-five years ago and where is she today? Most people wouldn’t imagine, isn’t it? Isn’t it so? In most societies, most people could not imagine that this will happen. So, I’m telling you, right now, the only thing that was tilted against her were: one thing is the man’s muscle – he’s got stronger, bigger muscles for survival; another thing is childbearing, which took a major part of her life at one time.

Because to have two, three children survive, she had to deliver seven, eight children, which kept her whole life busy.

47:42 - But right now, infant mortality rate has gone down significantly across the world; If you have two children, most probably both of them will survive, I’m saying.

47:51 - Those… Those days are gone where you had to bear eight children for two to survive, which used to be the way in the past. So, this man’s muscle and childbearing, both of them have been neutralized now. Once this is done, you should not think in terms of gender.

48:08 - You should just think in terms of human competence.

48:11 - It is important for us to understand, men and women are same species.

48:17 - But right now, a whole lot of people are campaigning as if they are separate species. No, it’s one species. One way or the other, either loving or hating, they have to live together, all right? The choice is this. But the nature of the feminine is not of conquest, the nature of the femi…

48:36 - See, when I say feminine, I’m not talking only about woman.

48:38 - Masculine, feminine are two different qualities in nature. Well, when feminine dominates, we call somebody a female; when masculine dominates, we call somebody a male.

48:49 - But it need not be determined by one’s gender.

48:51 - The feminine as a quality if it does not play equal role, fifty percent role in everything that we create in this world, then we will have a very skewed life.

49:03 - We will have dominance, but we will have no joy, we have no love, we have no inclusiveness, we have no play of life happening because… Right now this is what is happening.

49:13 - The most successful people I see are the most stressed and miserable people on the planet. Well, success is the sweetest thing in human life, isn’t it? Doesn’t matter what we’re doing, we want to be successful – whether act is simple or complex, we want to be successful.

49:29 - Now, successful people are sending out a message to everybody, “Success is a source of suffering. ” This is not right. This is happening because too much of masculine nature, not enough feminine nature, there is no inclusiveness, there is no joy, there is no laughter in a workplace, everybody is dead serious.

49:50 - Like ahh, it’s the… you know, it looks like doomsday if you go and look at offices. (Laughs) Noor: Yes. Sadhguru: It looks like today is a doomsday; everybody is dead serious, because somebody has told them “Only if you’re serious, you will work well. ” No, only if you are joyful, you’ll work well. Only if you do something with great joy, will the best of your intelligence and competence find expression, isn’t it?  So the feminine has to come. Just women coming into the office is not good enough; feminine has to play an equal role.

50:26 - Otherwise, you will have a skewed society, which will have everything, but we will have nothing.

50:31 - This is how unfortunately western societies have become. Everything is there, but everybody feels desperate all the time.

50:38 - This desperation is essentially absence of feminine in the social structure, in the workplace.

50:45 - And even at home, everybody is trying to be like this. (Gestures) See, it is not in the nature of the women to do this (Gestures), all right? But they’re all doing that because…

50:56 - because somewhere our definition of success has become masculine. This has to go. I would like everybody to appreciate my mother who never went out to any office and worked, my mother who never earned a single dime in her life, is a super successful woman in her life.

51:15 - Noor: For sure. That’s beautifully said. Sadhguru: She got me. (Laughs) Noor: I got you. (Laughter) Harjinder: That was very well said, Sadhguru.

51:32 - I would like to ask you, you said, “Yoga is the ultimate expression of life. ” Could you tell me… tell us more about your love with yoga, and why did you say this that yoga is ultimate expression of life? Sadhguru: (Laughs) I’m not in love with yoga. Ahh, I am yoga, in a way, because the word yoga means union. Well, we’ve been talking masculine, feminine. If we have to talk in those terms, if these two things unite, this is yoga.

52:11 - If what you think is you and me, this is your idea. Do you understand? If both of us are buried or let’s say me and somebody else is buried, not you – both of us become soil.

52:24 - We are in union only, isn’t it? Right now, we are breathing; wherever you are, in whichever part of the world you are, you’re breathing.

52:31 - You’re also breathing from the same atmospheric bubble, and I’m also breathing from the same atmospheric bubble. Maybe my exhalation will touch your inhalation any moment – just about the strength of the winds (Laughs) will decide how long it will take.

52:47 - So, I’m saying the whole existence is anyway in union.

52:51 - As a human being, you popped up on this planet; you’re just a popup like, you know, in the computer, there are popups.

52:57 - You’re just a popup – and you will pop out. Just because you can prance around on the earth, suddenly you think you are different. Suppose you were made like a tree, that is you were rooted in the earth, you would clearly know you’re part of the earth.

53:12 - Because you’re allowed mobility, suddenly you got a fancy idea that you are something other than the earth, isn’t it? So, life is anyway in union, the whole cosmos is anyway in union; when you experience that, we say you’re in yoga. Right now (Laughs), there is a complete misconception about what is yoga – if you twist and turn and look like a leftover noodle, you are in yoga. (Laughter) Harjinder: Wonderfully explained, Sadhguru I’ve never had (____ unclear) Sadhguru: So, it is a question of union.

So, do I practice yoga? No, I am yoga, I live in union with everything, in my life.

53:52 - And every human being has to live like this. If you were in one with everything, does somebody have to tell you, “Don’t kill this person, don’t rob this person, don’t harm this person,” do you need teachings and commandments to tell you what you should not do? If for one moment as you’re sitting there and I’m here, if you experience me as a part of yourself, does somebody has to tell you, “Be nice to Sadhguru,” is it necessary, I’m asking? So, all mora… moralities, all ethics, all values, all commandments are simply because we have forsaken our humanity.

54:31 - The fundamental nature of our existence is this… I must tell you this. You know, in 1998 when some UN agencies came and made a prediction that sixty percent of Tamil Nadu will become a desert by 2025. I didn’t like this prediction. I looked around, then I saw it is definitely happening.

54:51 - Then I saw what is the thing to do. That day, the green cover on… in Tamil Nadu was 16. 5%.

54:57 - I said, “We must move this to thirty-three percent. So we need to plant hundred-and-fourteen million trees,” I said. Everybody around me rolled their eyeballs and said, “Sadhguru, hundred-and-fourteen million trees, how is this possible?” Then I ask them, “What’s your population?” They said, “Sixty-two million. ” “See, if all of us plant one tree today, take care of it for two years and plant one more, it’s done. ” All right? Even a beggar on the street can plant one tree.

55:24 - Actually, as a symbolic thing for this Cauvery Calling movement that we are doing, which is forty-two rupees per tree. Beggars in Chennai have contributed, actually contributed, for planting of the trees. Because I wanted to prove that even a beggar can do it.

55:40 - You don’t have to be a rich man to do it; everybody can do this, all right? The question is only, we are not experiencing that oneness. So, “How to do this?” when they said, I said… I spent six years planting trees in people’s heads, which is the harshest terrain usually.

55:56 - So the simple thing was, I set up a spiritual process – I made people sit near the trees and made them sitting with their face up breathing and made them experience what you exhale the trees are inhaling, what the trees exhale you’re… what the trees exhale you’re inhaling.

56:14 - Once they experience this, now you can’t stop them from planting trees. Now according to the government gazette, you know, like, the tree cover has gone up over 7. 2%, according to Google Maps it’s over eleven percent.

56:28 - You can’t stop people from planting trees because now they see that it’s a part of their lung hanging out there. I’m saying if you know… knew yoga, if you experience the oneness… This is not something you have to create; this is the way life is happening, isn’t it? This is the way life is happening; we are one with everything, but we have a psychological drama going on in our head, which makes us believe we are a world by ourselves.

56:56 - Noor: Very true. Harjinder: (___ Unclear) Noor, would you please ask any question and… Noor: I… you know, with everything we’ve been speaking about, I feel I have so much to take… take in. (Laughter) Umm it is… it is truly so wonderful. In terms of what you just mentioned about that oneness and connection in a very odd manner, 2020 with the experience of the virus, it’s kind of thrown us all in a very similar journey of emotional uncertainty, and uncertainty that is looked at us maybe more so in our face, right? I mean life is uncertain.

57:41 - However, with this experience, I think that has been heightened somehow, and how do you see this impacting the next few years in terms of our evolution and understanding? Sadhguru: Noor, did you know that you’re having the globe as a halo around your head? (Laughs) Noor: I love it. (Laughter) I didn’t notice. Sadhguru: You’re having the world map as a halo.

58:11 - Noor: I didn’t notice. (Laughter) Sadhguru: So, very symbolic! (Laughter) Harjinder: (____ Unclear) So, the thing is about the pandemic… See, it’s very simple – if only, if only the humanity was little more conscious. When I say little more conscious, the essence of being human when compared to other creatures is, they all have instincts of compulsive behavior –  their survival process, their reproductive process everything happens instinctively.

58:57 - This is why even their reproductive times are decided by nature, okay, for all the other creatures.

59:04 - But for human beings many bars were removed by nature because we are supposed to be… you know, we are the only ones who are referred to as beings. Nobody else is a being, this is the only one which is referred to as a being because we are supposed to know how to be.

59:23 - If we knew how to be, what is the problem with the virus? All we had to do was when the virus started coming in, if we said,  “Okay, this virus is coming in next fourteen days, all of you simply be by yourself.

59:37 - Don’t do any human contact. Just be by yourself, do whatever you want to do – you sing, you dance, or you close your eyes and meditate, do whatever – no human contact. ” If we were conscious beings, effortlessly we could have done that.

59:54 - That’s the end of pandemic, isn’t it? Noor: Hmmm.

59:58 - Sadhguru: But just see how difficult it is, when pandemic is on, full scale things… people are dying around you. People say “I want to have a haircut. ” I didn’t know haircut was such a compulsive thing. You know, I haven’t had one in all my life now. (Laughter) I’m saying, people are saying, “I want to have my haircut, I can’t live without my haircut. ” So, I’m saying we have become so compulsive, far more compulsive than other creatures actually, unfortunately.

This is forsaking our humanity. Because humanity comes into play only when we’re able to consciously choose what to do and how to be. Once we give up our conscious choice of right now how to be, then we are no more human beings; we’ve just gone back in evolutionary scale.

60:53 - So, this is all that needs to happen. It’s not just for this pandemic; whatever else may happen to this planet, all right? Whatever else may come our way.

61:02 - Because what the world throws at you is not your choice, not always your choice at least,  but what you make out of it is hundred percent your choice. So, this is all we have to do that we must become more conscious human beings, and we can be called human beings only if we can handle our requirements in a conscious manner. See, everything that an animal does we also do, all right? They ea… They are born, we are born; they grow up, we grow up; they grow up simply, we grow up with lot of fuss; and they eat, we eat; they reproduce, we reproduce; they die, we die.

61:42 - Everything that an animal does, we do. And physiologically we are just another animal, all right? The only thing that makes us different is the same things of growing up, of eating, of sleeping, of reproduction, everything we can conduct it consciously. That is what is the difference between us and them. Yes? If we do not conduct this consciously, then you have given up your evolutionary status of being the peak of evolution on this planet.

62:12 - Now, our problem is there, not in the pandemic – our problem is not in the virus.

62:16 - Our problem is in lack of being able to be conscious, lack of responsible behavior; that’s where our problem is.

62:25 - On many levels this is finding, and I’m constantly trying to take people back into that.

62:30 - People are saying, for example, there’s a war against plastic.

62:34 - It’s a completely misdirected war; plastic is one of the best materials we’ve produced on the planet.

62:40 - You can recycle the same material thousand times and use it. There is no other material like this, all right? It’s a fantastic material; you can make just about anything out of it.

62:51 - But now it’s become a serious problem: it is in the oceans, it is in the rivers, it’s in the landfills, it’s everywhere.

62:58 - The problem is human irresponsibility, isn’t it? The problem is not plastic.

63:04 - If you use plastic responsibly, it is a great thing because you don’t have to produce any other material; you can keep on recycling the same thing for many, many, many years; for generations of people, we can use the same material. But we’re saying… we are waging a war against plastic; we are waging a war against virus.

63:22 - No, no, viruses, bacterias, all these things have always been there on the planet. Many times it’s jumped. In the process of our evolution, in the development of our intelligence, in the development of human placenta, virus has played a significant role. Maybe this virus will make a genius out of you, I don’t know. (Laughs) I’m joking.

63:42 - This’s not a time to joke; I know everybody is dead serious. (Laughs) Because people have died, people have lost their loved ones… Noor: Of course.

63:50 - Sadhguru: people have lost… Noor: Yes. Sadhguru: Economic losses are there.

63:53 - But you do not know the full impact of this virus upon your system yet, you still do not know, that’s a fact. Noor: Sure.

64:03 - In the past, it has happened million… million years ago or so, that the basic quality of human placenta, which is the basis of woman being able to bear healthy children is because of virus influence, a certain virus influenced us.

64:18 - Similarly, the development of our body, our intelligence, nearly fifty-two percent of our body right now is microorganisms. Only forty-eight percent is genetic material, rest is all other creatures living within us. So, the problem is not of the virus; virus has always been there on the planet.

64:37 - Maybe they were in the bats; maybe they were in the pangolins; right now, they chose us. But the problem is just that human beings are behaving in unconscious and compulsive ways – that is the problem.

64:50 - If we just consciously sit aside for one fortnight, it’s a done thing. But can you get the human society to do that right now? (Laughs) Noor: That is the mystry.

65:05 - Sadhguru: You… You’re the Noor, you must throw light on us. (Laughter) Noor: I… you know, it would be… It’s a… it’s a blessing honestly to have this exchange, and I’m very, very grateful for having been part of this conversation with both of you really. Harjinder please. Harjinder: Thank you.

65:28 - Sadhguru, I can’t thank you enough for such insightful thoughts that you gave us today.

65:33 - As always, the session was an eye-opener. I’m sure our viewers will agree that we’ll go back to introspecting and connecting with our inner self,  trying to find balance in our thoughts and action. I will thank everyone who is there with us today. Thank you so much for spending your time with us. And I also would like to thank Noor on behalf of IWEC, on behalf of myself here as part of this session.

66:00 - Namaskar, Sadhguru, thank you so much. Sadhguru: Please come and visit us either in Coimbatore or in Tennessee. We have a beautiful place out here. You’re in United States, Noor, is it? Noor: I’m in Jordan. Sadhguru: Oh, you are in Jordan. Okay. I’ve been to Jordan, once I came to Petra, and also Amman; (Laughs) we traveled in that area. When either in US or in India, please come and visit us. You also, Harjinder.

66:26 - Noor: Would be a pleasure, and needless to say, you always have a home here as well.

66:30 - Sadhguru: Thank you, thank you. Namaskaram.

66:33 - Harjinder: Thank you, Sadhguru. Noor: Thank you. .