Kunstnersamtaler - Daniel Grindeland og Hina Zaidi

My name is Hina Zaidi. And this is Daniel Grindeland! We’ve been invited here to Scenkunstbruket to talk about art for kids and youngsters. And that is something we both work with in different ways. I think that is really nice. Maybe we should start by introducing ourselves, do you want to start? Yes! I’m Daniel Grindeland, 26 years old I’m from a small island outside of Bergen called Sotra. I got into performing arts in 2010. At that point I had already done breakdancing for five years. But in 2010 I got an insight into the world of theatre.

00:59 - And how it was to do breakdance on a stage and work towards a show. A show where we had a theme, something to say instead of “just” breakdancing and doing tricks. But doing things intentionally for the sake of a storyline. I found working like that very interesting and have been working with it since 2010. And the more I learn, the more I figure out I didn’t know before. I think it’s a very exciting theme to work with, and really want to continue doing a deep dive into theatre. What about you? Yes, where should I start… My name is Hina, I’m 35 years old. Born in Pakistan, raised in Oslo, Grouddalen. I work as an actor, I do workshops for slam poetry… And I’m a trainer at Stovner boxing club. I started out as a Child Care Worker. finished that education in 2010. Started working as an actor in ²⁰⁰⁹⁄₂₀₁₀. I thought that was kinda fun, so I balanced working in Child Protective Services or as a youth worker and suddenly working with Riksteateret. So I balanced those two jobs.

02:34 - Then I started at Nordic Black Express Theatre School in 2015. Finished in 2017. After that I’ve only worked with theatre. Teaching writing courses with slam poetry. In 2018 I was part of a performance called Asfalt Puls. That performance was aimed directly towards youth. And I thought that was very interesting. ‘Cause I love working with children and youngsters. One of the reason for choosing the profession of Child Care Worker. Thinking than, and now, that it’s very interesting. I continued with that. Working for Tigerstads Teateret. They work specifically with theatre for kids and youngsters. Learned ALOT. Still working there. Now with a show called The Jungel Which was supposed to have a lot of viewings now, but they got cancelled because of the ongoing pandemic. But that’s how it is! But, yes, I like that I can mix my academic background with the theatrical one.

03:48 - Do you feel like it helps to have the knowledge you got from your education when working with kids and youngsters? Does it work together or against each other? I feel like I have some perspectives that, well… Know something about the importance of being seen and heard and how you can get the kids and youngsters to have a positive experience in the theatre world. That we can create. And how we can catch them in a way that hits them. What about you? How long have you been breakdancing? I started out in 2005. So 15 years now. 15 years?! Congratulations! Thank you! It’s been a lot of fun. Started out when I was 11 years old, in a local gym a couple of kilometers from where I lived.

04:57 - Didn’t know anything about breakdancing before that. Before turning 11, I did football, handball, basketball, archery… I had tried it all! I was an energetic kid. Unable to sit still. None of these sports enthused me. But then I saw a breakdance show in school. And I thought “WOW! This is amazing.” I thought it was something you did with your hands, ‘cause they did that. I wanted to try that. So me and four others from my class started the breakdance-course. I remember the feeling of coming to this school. Standing outside, not knowing what was in store. And we opened the door, it was like walking into Narnia. There were rap-music blasting from the speakers, a guy spinning on his head Students around the room practicing different tricks and helping each other Then a guy comes up and just, high fives me! Welcoming us.

06:05 - Saying they were going to teach us how to breakdance. And that was the Absence Crew guys that held the course. And after that first course, I knew that this was what I wanted to do. I really wanted to do this. Quit everything else. Only did breakdancing. And a couple of years later, I joined absence Crew. I’ve been working with them for the last ten years. It’s been very fun. I saw you guys on Norwegian Talents! Yes! That’s right, we were on that show. You got quite far? Yes, to the finale. That was the year before I joined. I remember it was so cool! The coolest guys from Bergen was on Norwegian Talents. We sat at home with posters cheering them on. Really fun. And now you are part of the crew? Now I dance with them, yes.

07:00 - We’ve made four performances ourselves, that we produced together with for example Den Nasjonale Scene. And we have participated in some other shows as well. It’s really nice. Breakdance is a lot about creativity, creating something on your own. And it comes naturally for us when we are breakdancing. So coming in to a production where we can decide everything ourselves… I feel it’s a lot of fun. It’s sort of has the same core that breakdance does. Coming in to the production with a clean slate, and start filling it up. But you sort of don’t enter the production with a clean slate. You enter with your abilities, breakdance. And then you put it into a theatrical context. It’s the same way that we worked… I participated in making boxing theatre, Norways first.

08:02 - It was made together with Det Norske Teateret on Rommen Scene and Speakerbox. They contacted me, wondering if I could put together a group of children from Stovner Boxing Club and make a boxing theatre. So I went and asked the youth. They know that I work with acting and such. So I asked them if they wanted to join. Several wanted to join, and nine did. It started out with these ladies, Cici Henriksen, Hedda Sandvig and Belinda joined us for a training session. Getting to know us first. Boxing with us and they got hit in the face several times.

08:46 - Then they brought us into what they were making. The theatrical part. They wanted to hear their stories, our stories. I brought some slam poetry that I had written my self, and put that into the show. And I also held a course in making slam poetry for the participating youth. So everything, the whole script, is written by us. We’ve looked into themes such as friendship, what boxing means what loneliness can mean what affiliation means, why that is important. For instance Stovner Boxing Club. It feels like a family. ‘Cause when you’re there it’s… You’re there without any pressure, pressure to perform. Everybody is equally important to us. And that is something they brought into this show called “Best”. It sort of became my life in a nut shell. ‘Cause I brought my youth worker background, the acting, slam poetry and of course the boxing. For me it became a project close to my heart. I’m still trying to get it up and running.

10:04 - We started playing at schools and then came corona. But I’m talking to Belinda Braastad and Det Norske Teateret, trying to make it happen next year. So we’ll see what happens. The youth got really engaged with the project and want to do it. But they’re attending school. Which is a small challenge. My thought was that you brought breakdance into the theatre, and we brought boxing into it. So mastering something, being able to do something, and then bringing it into theatre It feel sort of… More genuine. Yes.

10:45 - It’s something about bringing something from the outside, and adapting it to something else. I can imagine it being a challenge to tell a story with boxing. At the same time, it opens up to many new opportunities But it’s something about the process of tweeking something from the outside to fit into another frame. When you’re talking about bringing all these things into the performance, your story, do you feel like that is portrayed in the performance? And the slam poetry you write, is it something you feel that you’ve experienced yourself? What do you feel when you write these texts? The texts that I write, comes from me. For instance in “Best”, I brought a text that’s about my childhood.

11:49 - It’s also about why I started as a trainer. The youth also brought in stories from their lives that were used in the show. When your standing there telling stories that other people, for instance from Groruddalen, can recognise themselves in… It becomes quite a powerful expression. I think it’s an intriguing way to work. Absolutely! If the audience can see themselves in the show, relate to it, it affects them in a different way. That’s what’s so nice about art. You can make something that people can relate to.

12:38 - And you can give them advice without being the adult telling them what they should and shouldn’t do. But you can portray it through a performance. Yes, I agree with exactly what you’re saying. Not telling them, but showing them through the performance. Encouraging them to think for themselves. Theatre is made for every age group, to touch their feelings. To maybe make them think a little. One thing that doesn’t work, is being moralizing. Rather showing them “This is the way it is, what do you think about that? What can we do about this issues?” They exist in the different areas where we’re from. Absolutely. I recognize my self in what you are saying. When I grew up, I had ADHD. That’s why I had all that energy. But I noticed that if somebody tried to tell me what to do, I wanted to do the opposite. But when I got into breakdancing. And breakdancing thought me a lot about disiplin. Thought me about setting goals for my self.

13:52 - I wanted so bad to be good at breakdancing. When I got to think for my self and learn, I was able to adapt that into school for instance. I think that is something performing arts is very helpful with in schools today as well. Through The Cultural Backpack (DKS) for instance? Yes, for example that. ‘Cause you’re touring quite a lot through DKS? Yes, I was on my first tour with DKS in 2011. We did three weeks on that tour.

14:28 - After that, I think I’ve been touring with DKS between 10 and 25 weeks a year. Who do you have performances or shows for? In 2011we started out with primary schools. With the first production we made ourselves. That one was for primary schools. We were in Sogn and Fjordane, or, what was called that back then. We played for the primary schools. But in some places there were primary and junior high school together. In those places, the 10th graders were peaking through the windows trying to see what was going on. We asked them to just let the whole school join. Let everybody come and see. After that, we’ve toured every primary school, junior high school and high school in all of Sogn and Fjordane. We’ve traveled all around Norway as well. It’s been very rewarding. A thing that’s really nice with DKS, is that you come to the where the students are. Even arriving at the smallest places, places you haven’t even heard of. And then you play wherever there’s room.

15:41 - A library, in the canteen, the gym, a classroom… Is so nice. You are performing so close to the audience. And when the show’s done, we stay behind. High-fiving the kids. If they want to learn some tricks, we teach them. If they want to talk to us, ask any questions - anything. We get so close to them, getting personal. It’s a lot more rewarding than doing shows on big stages. Where you finish, say thank you and exit the stage. Then you’re done.

16:20 - Meeting the children after the DKS shows, we get to hear what they like. What they think. If they got anything out of it. That’s what I think is one of the best things about traveling with DKS. Yes, I also like the after show talks with the audience. Specially with the youth. It’s something we work towards. Wanting to hear what they have to say. For instance with the performance “Asfalt Puls”. We had a tour around Oslo. For example in schools. The administration was told that we were coming.

17:00 - We put up our things in right before their longest break. So when the bell rang, we were already ready to perform. It was up to the youth to come over and see what this was about. “Asfalt Puls” is 20 minutes of a quite explosive performance. Street theatre. So when the youth themselves chose to come over on their own, to check this out. Maybe choosing to shout back or showing some other sort of involvement. Rather than them being told to sit down, be quiet and watch. It’s something completely different. And while we are playing, they figure out that the performance sort of is about them. It’s about exclusion, violence at home, anxiety, the tyranny of beauty… They get sucked into the storyline. And they are together with us as actors. We’re playing, insisting on what we’re telling them. Giving the text straight to them.

18:03 - And when we’re done, they’re standing around like question marks. What was this? Who are you? Then we ask them “What was it that you saw? Is there something you want to tell us? Do you have any questions?” Those are the conversations that are so important. We also give pamphlets to the teachers or if we’re playing at a youth club, an adult, with information. In case there are conversations that come up, the teachers/adults know that they have to be there for the kids. It’s a rough subject that we address through the performance. It’s very rewarding.

18:45 - Especially for me that wanted to work with children and youth in the beginning, 15 years ago. Took that heavy education as a child care worker. It’s very fun for me that I still get to work with that age group. Even though I work within the creative realm. Theatre and acting. Which basically is only fun. But it’s not only fun. It’s very rewarding. Yes. ‘Cause you can choose yourself wether you wan’t to portray a heavy subject or if you want it to be all fun. And direct it towards the youngsters.

19:15 - What’s really nice about your background, is the opportunity to help the youngsters with your knowledge. And mix it with theatre. It can be even more powerful. You can reach out to them in a different way than if you didn’t - What can I say… If you had your background only in theatre. ‘Cause performing arts is very important for children. I have an episode that happened to me. I was in Afghanistan. Together with Den Nasjonale Scene. That’s the theatre in Bergen. They had a project called “The Kabul project”. They were going to rebuild the competence of The National Theatre in Kabul as well as in the universities. For people studying to become actors. We were four people who went there.

20:08 - The boss, a playwright, a scenographer and me, a dancer. We called it acrobatics. Because in some places it was illegal to dance. So when I had breakdance workshops, we called them acrobatics workshops. We travelled around, I stayed mostly in the university. Teaching. It was so much fun! The experience that effected me most, happened one day when we went sightseeing. We went up this hill. And there was this old, rusty tanks. Around it, there were around 20-30 children playing.

20:45 - A newspaper were following us around, and they wanted to take pictures of me standing on one hand on the tanks. “That would be cool for a piece in the paper!” So I did it. And all the children were awestruck. “What’s he doing?!” And I was like, okey, one more time. Stood on one hand. The kids loved it! When we were moving on, the kids started gathering around. Started pulling my shirt. So we didn’t move on. It ended up with me doing a little show for them. Did some breakdancing, somersaults.

21:17 - But the kids still wouldn’t let us go! So I held a little workshop for them. A real quick on. Teaching them some move standing up, some small ones on the ground. Then we made a circle. And the kids went into it one by one, dancing and having fun. The way that the kids got to dance, learning something new. Maybe seeing something they had never seen before. They forgot everything else. They were in their own world. Didn’t think about anything around just being in that moment. Right now, we are enjoying ourselves. Having fun.

21:57 - And even though it might be challenging to live there… I don’t know too much about that. But I can imagine it. Just seeing that joy in their eyes. They lit up. They danced with each other, giving out high fives. Gave me a high five. It effected me strongly. It made me understand how important performing arts is. Especially for kids. It gives them an escape from this world, into a world which they choose for themselves. Or that somebody has chosen for them, but it’s somewhere they like.

22:37 - I feel that performing arts is involved in doing that. In all places really. And like when you are talking about doing shows in the school-kids long recess. Not everybody looks forward to that recess. Many are being excluded by fellow students. Maybe some get bullied. Some doesn’t get bullied, but want to avoid it. And end up being the ones who bully to avoid it. When you do your performance in the schoolyard, maybe it gives the kids a break to forget about it all. Forgetting about the things that might be scary about recess. Just being sucked into a different world. A world that can teach them to put thing into perspective. I think that is very important. I think creating positive experiences that they can take with them. I have a lot of faith in live and living art leaves traces in them.

23:36 - Rather than art through a screen which is very common now. On Ipads and scrolling on the internet. I think live art leaves traces in a different way than that. It’s something about reaching the people. I think it’s stronger live than when you watch a screen. Reaching the audience, seeing their feelings. Well yeah, it’s a lot more personal. Getting eye contact. They feel seen. Not everybody feels like that. Especially in the adolescence. It’s so important. Inviting the youth into a world where we as actors show them how important it is that just you are here and are joining us in our world. ‘Cause maybe we are mirroring you.

24:33 - Maybe mirroring something that you are feeling but do not dare to talk about. Yes. For me, breakdancing was kinda like that. A place where I disappeared into another world. A place where you worked creatively, showing your strengths. So if you’re good at doing tricks, you might focus on that. ‘Cause that’s one of your talents. And if you’re not acrobatic or athletic, maybe you focus on the dancing. You can focus on making your own stuff. Adjusting the dance to what you are good at instead of trying to fit into a fram. That’s something I find very interesting. In school, it’s a lot about fitting into different things. A certain framework. You have to learn and be this and that. But in performing arts, there are so many different directions. You use your strengths, I use mine. Everybody has some strengths. It’s about finding those strengths and adapt them into somewhere that people appreciate what you do. Yes, it’s a sense of accomplishment. Thats what’s in focus. Thats sort of the way we work in Stovner Boxing Club as well.

25:56 - With all the youngsters that come there to train. It doesn’t matter to us how good you are. It matters that you are here. Every practitioner, no matter how good, matters to us. Giving them the feeling of being seen. They get to try and get praised for it. It might have something to do with our youth worker approach to training. Because I’m a trained child care worker and and the head coach, Mojtaba Ameri, is in training to be. So Stovner Boxing Club works in a different way.

26:32 - When you put these youngsters onto a stage, they have so much to say. Especially about what boxing with us means to them. It was very surprising to me. ‘Cause I didn’t talk that much to them about their experience about actually being with us. When we brought this along to writing texts… The youngsters starts telling the people from Speakerbox and Det Norske Teateret, me in the background, what the boxing ment to them. It was very moving. Like… “Oh, I didn’t know this”.

27:09 - But I’m gonna continue fighting for the boxing clubs continued existence. Right now, we don’t have a place to train. We’re in dialog with politicians, the city council and stuff like that to find a place for us. We went from being 15 members, to being 160. We’ve gotten the Bridge Builder-price from Cecilia Brekkhus. A lot of people appreciate what we are doing, working for the youth. It is important. Some people experience kids and youngsters as someone on their way to adulthood. And that’s when they become human beings. But they are already full-fledged humans even though they’re kids and youngsters. We have to take them seriously. Have to work towards them having a valuable life. Not thinking that we have to work towards them growing into being great tax-payers and citizens.

28:07 - But that they already, in their age, are full-fledged human beings. Absolutely! I think it is important. And when you talk about going from fifteen to far beyond hundred… What has made you gain so many members? Do you know that? I can imagine it has something to do with opening up for… Well, me for instance, who was asked to become a trainer for girls. It opened up for more girls to join us. Then we started wearing Stovner Boxing Club merch. It became a sense of belonging.

28:48 - The youngsters talked to others, who then talked to more. And when they came to us, we welcomed them with open arms. The fact that we see them, include them in what we are doing. They enjoy being with us. As a result, they want to come train with us. What you’re saying, I think, you seeing all your members, no matter if they’re good or not. The most important thing is that they are there. As I understand it, it seems that you’ve created a very good environment. Where people feel seen. Theres no pressure to achieve. They come there to be with friends, learn something new. Simply have fun. And that makes the club grow. Now being more than a hundred members. That being proof that what you’re doing is completely right. We just have to hope that you’ll have a place to continue training soon.

29:49 - The club has a big potential if we just get a place to be. If we get a place, I guess we’re over 500 member within two or three years. I’m happy to come try out boxing! Yes! You are very welcome to train with us! You have to promise not to kick my ass. I won’t. Well, I can’t promise anything. You do slam poetry. Maybe you want to show us something? You want me to do a slam? Yes! Wouldn’t that be fun! Sure! Which one to take… (Slam poetry in Norwegian) Do you want to breakdance to the rest of the text? Yes, let’s try! It might be fun! Of course! Remember distance! I can do the rest of the text from here.

31:03 - (Continues slam poetry in Norwegian) Thank you Daniel! Wow! That was a nice ending! A little collaboration. Maybe we can do more of that? Let’s talk more about that. Thanks for having us! .